Question for you veterans...

[Blzdwrath]

As I've started to fine tune some of my poker skills I find myself lost as to where I should look to find my leaks. So the question I have for some of you more experienced and successful players; What were some of the most important leaks you fixed as you progressed as a player.

Please include what made you realize you were leaking, how you fixed it, and how it has improved your game.

[Smurph64]

well still working on leaks but I don't really focus on them much. I look back after 20k hands and see if they have anomalies over the other hands in the past.

Sometimes you inadvertently fall in love with a hand because of past performance and when it comes down to reality its not that great of hand.

I have problems with A9 and K9 mostly so working on those two at the moment.

It's difficult to look at certain hands per se but more having to look at betting patterns that you fall into that you do too much.

This happens for me more often than not if I multi-table so its important to not fall into making those predictable c bets check turn fold ui situations.

The only way I find these leaks is to do performance reviews after each of my play sessions.

Quite often its a real fast fix and you can go back an hour later and make the correction.

Obviously blind play and defense are very important leaks to figure out so I focus on my blind play a lot.

I usually isolate PT stats for the blinds and go over them with a fine tooth comb on a regular basis.

It's clear to me from reading stats and discussing concepts with other posters that my blind philosophy and understanding is not rock solid and very read specific to the opponents.

Still not sure if that is a leak or not but sometimes leaks don't show up in results so its hard to know for sure if there is a leak there or not.

This is something I probably need a coach for when I make enough to pay for one.

[Bona]

IMO the biggest potential leak is poor hand selection, that is to say preflop skills. Fortunately that may be the easiest to learn and manage as well. Of course it apparently takes some time and experience to manage the nuances of even preflop play according to position and player reads. At least I haven't perfected it yet

One big leak I have tried to minimize is over correcting. I have learned many things by posting hands and session reviews etc but in the process have frequently over corrected and lengthened my personal learning curve. EXAMPLE: It may be a leak to fold a certain hand in a certain spot but that doesn't mean it is always a leak to fold that hand.

I expect everyone recognizes their leaks in different ways and by different stimuli and most likely not until they have progressed far enough to "get it" about that specific issue. Learning readiness plays into the process.

Perhaps my biggest leak is the one I will never completely "fix". That is failing to fully appreciate all the nuances of the decision I face in time to act correctly under fire. A lot of factors go into making each decision and with only a few seconds to decide my talent limits show up here a lot.

Read the books. Use PT and PAHUD for several reasons but PT is especially valuable for reviewing your own play. When you encounter a situation you have played but can't figure out what went wrong post the hand. Participate in session reviews. They are not a panacea but they are very useful in the learning process.

[KitCloudkicker]

leak:
underestimating the importance of pot odds

fix: transforming fit or fold postflop strategy to a pot odds and positionally-dependent postflop strategy

[B2_eBoogaloo]

try this:

* look for some hands where you think you made the wrong play, but got rewarded

example 1. you 3-bet flop with an overpair vs a passive villain, only to find out that you indeed had the best hand
example 2. you pfr 99, and bet KQx flop into two opponents, you call a raise, and turn a 9.

* look for hands where you think you did not value bet more, but lost the hand anyway

example 1. you flop a set with 33 on a monotone board. you checkraise the pfr, and he 3-bets. You just call the 3-bet.
example 2. you flop a flush on the button and BB bets out, 3 callers, and you raise, BB 3-bets, callers call again, and you just call.

things to consider when looking at hands:
consider the plays you made/should have made, in spite of the results, i.e.
if you post a hand like this, stop the action at the key decision (should I 3-bet?, should I check/fold?, should I fold to the 3-bet?). In other words, don't call the 3-bet, and then show how you just 2-outered villain. Show how you didn't cap the flop with the flush draw, even though it came in/didn't come in.

- buzz

[tyler_cracker]

the most important leak i fixed was responding to people who spent a couple hours reviewing my sessions and telling me what my leaks are.

the second most important leak is still got to cbet cbet everything in limit.

[Dankenstein]

[ QUOTE ]
the most important leak i fixed was responding to people who spent a couple hours reviewing my sessions and telling me what my leaks are.

the second most important leak is still got to cbet cbet everything in limit.

[/ QUOTE ]
How often do you C-Bet Cbet ? I feel that I do it too much personally and am trying to analyze that portion of my game.

[B2_eBoogaloo]

Dank,

try search in all the limit forums: +conti +bet -Re:

another search:

+CB -Re:

Buzz

[Blzdwrath]

Good responses so far. Lets go a little deeper on some of these. What do you look for when combing your play sessions. What sticks out to you, what looks suspicious.

With pot odds do you factor in implied odds, reverse implied odds, hand ranges, etc? Do you do this multi-tabling. What steps did you take to be able to do it so quickly and efficiently.

Player reads; what are your techniques for developing player reads. What notes do you take that helps you make decisions pre-flop, how about post flop. How does this effect your playable hand ranges.

C-bets and overcards; tell me what your first tendencies were when playing overcards and making c-bets, how have they evolved.

How about bluff defense. This one is difficult one for me. I've called down some marginal hands even against 3 or more opponents (doesn't happen very often) and am surprised to see that not only do I win but my opponents had absolute trash, despite their donk bets and bluff raises. How do you guys approach this aspect.

Thats all I can think of right now. Please respond to the best of your ability, not just for the newbies sake but also for your sake, who knows maybe you have a leak somewhere in one of these concepts.

Also if anyone else has a question about a specific technique/concept do not be afraid to ask it. This thread is all about clearing up misconceptions and spreading some wisdom.

[Smurph64]

re bluffs, I follow the cycle of 3 there in that every 3rd time I suspect a bluff I call down if I have overcards or a good pair. Many times I suspect a bluff but don't have even that to call down with so you have to give it up. Let me clarify the 3 though, its the third time I suspect a bluff from a player, I let the first two go usually. After 3 then I mix it up more and more and against some I never fold.

Some players just love to bluff and these guys I can cap with middle pair. They will continue to bluff all the way to the river. They check raise every 3 flush, every pair on the board, every 4 flush even if the 3 flush failed the first time.

It's hard to look these guys up multi-tabling so I usually if I find a real live one drop down to that table and focus on that person and table completely.

I am focusing on reading players now more than ever and have started putting in detail notes on action patterns for players, like the bluff patterns above.

I put things like calls to showdown with bottom pair, top pair, two pair with flush board etc in the note box. I find that more informative than looking at the detail PAHUD stats especially if I am playing more than 2 tables.

I also put CC data in so I can range their hands more accurately and then I look at H/U skills.

I record the open raise hands I see UTG and 3 bet range on Button.

C bets have changed the most for me now. I do it around 60 to 75% of the time now as I find people are learning about calling and check/raising the turn.

Those that do c/r turn I mark down and mix it up a lot with them depending on my position relative to them.

I always screw up when reverse dominated still, but I have worked hard with pokerstove and observation to figure out good and bad flops to factor odds with and good and bad opponents to work out implied odds with.

Obviously I am not as good as others here like Aaron and rely more on an instinctive feel rather than pure math so I find I make mistakes of folding when I shouldn't.

This often happens preflop where I won't call 1.5 in the SB or when I am sandwiched between two and get my raise coming back to me for two.

I have the odds to continue and just think mubs.

That is going to take more practice and that is essentially how I learnt how to apply odds: practice, practice and practice.

Its a skill I never stop working on. I single table more than most I suspect and focus solely on the hands in front of me even when I am not in them and work out odds with my folded cards over and over.