50NL: BB special, value town river?

Tinga · #1 10-12-2007, 12:42 AM

No stats/reads on villain. 2 Orbits in. Villain snap calls turn check/raise.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

MP3 ($19.25)
CO ($48.50)
Button ($52.25)
SB ($29.55)
Hero ($82.85)
UTG ($29.25)
UTG+1 ($53.35)
MP1 ($41.60)
MP2 ($26.10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
6 folds, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.25) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1, Button raises to $3, Hero calls $2.

Turn: ($7.25) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $5, Hero raises to $16, Button calls $11.

River: ($39.25) T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero ?.

Final Pot: $39.25

Likely holdings with limped button? Ax, XXdd? Hate the button limper, but you gotta like the flop here. Hate to miss some value against an Ax hand. With his snap-turn call, has to seem like a draw. Thoughts?

keepitreal · #2 10-12-2007, 01:00 AM

i check fold the river. he made any draw, or has you outkicked with a better J (the ones he woulda limped might have paired on the board boating him up) or at best you're chopping J8/J9. i find it highly unlikely he bets Ax. and to confirm any of this, i dont think his turn bet after you c/r flop and check turn screams anything but Jx or dd.

if it was a non diamond river, i still check. sure its the case jack but i doubt he's betting much worse than that. and you could very well be outkicked where it plays so i fold to a lot of bets even on a safe river. but probably call him down for anything half pot or smaller but that probably aint happening based on his turn bet. and this is all hypothetical anyway.

bottom line, not knowing the opponent i dont like this at all as is...even though the flopped seemed glorious, all evidence points to being behind.

Tinga · #3 10-12-2007, 12:47 PM

kir,

do you even know how to play poker?

keepitreal · #4 10-12-2007, 06:39 PM

lol no. and after rereading this, i totally missed the fact that u werent doing the reraising on the flop...which changes things. but by the river i still dont bet for value oop considering all you beat is Ax and any reasonable pot sized bet doesnt get called by anybody but a donk with Ax.

alex-star · #5 10-12-2007, 06:58 PM

OK, so street by street.

1. PF I'd raise to take it down, since the limper is going to have position on you.
2. Flop is fine.
3. I open bet the turn, at least $6. If raised, I will RRAI.
4. As played, the river is a check. Still Ace-little is their most probable holding here. Therefore I am probably going to be willing to call a reasonable bet.

Tinga · #6 10-12-2007, 07:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
OK, so street by street.

1. PF I'd raise to take it down, since the limper is going to have position on you.

[/ QUOTE ]
???????????????

You're raising J3o OOP to a button limper?

head asplode.

[ QUOTE ]
3. I open bet the turn, at least $6. If raised, I will RRAI.

[/ QUOTE ]

i don't mind this. although, by check raising, i'm trying to get some more value out of his ace (if he has it) -- i'm not trying to make the pot too big at this point, because if he's calling me down with his dmd draw hand, and hits the river, i don't want to be pot committed and ship him a stack. at least by taking the line i did, i can get away on the river if i check/fold to a big bet. the river was a scare, so i held back.

[ QUOTE ]
4. As played, the river is a check. Still Ace-little is their most probable holding here. Therefore I am probably going to be willing to call a reasonable bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

agree with everything but the bold. any non-dmd or Ax river, and i'm going to value town. if he has a jack .. well, more power to his donkey ass.

Chargers In 07 · #7 10-12-2007, 07:22 PM

If you bet turn and he raises I'd seriously consider folding. Most people are not stupid enough to raise an Ace here and we have no kicker.

Raising preflop sucks.

Tinga · #8 10-12-2007, 07:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Most people are not stupid enough to raise an Ace here and we have no kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he's stupid enough to open-limp with Ax OTB, then he may be stupid enough to raise a turn lead.

i would maybe consider folding if he 3-bet my c/r.

Fiasco · #9 10-12-2007, 08:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Most people are not stupid enough to raise an Ace here and we have no kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

if he's stupid enough to open-limp with Ax OTB, then he may be stupid enough to raise a turn lead.

i would maybe consider folding if he 3-bet my c/r.

[/ QUOTE ]

doubt it. People tend to be consistent. Limping the button is stupid passive, going nuts with Ax is stupid aggressive.

Fiasco · #10 10-12-2007, 08:38 PM

I was going to say make a blocking bet on the river, but youve inflated the pot to the point that any reasonable sized bet commits you.

I think you need to check fold the river. I think that if villain is on Ax and played it that way he is checkign behind.