50 NL...crying call on flop?

llamage · #1 10-03-2007, 06:14 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

CO ($10)
Button ($72.30)
Hero ($84.20)
BB ($40.50)
UTG ($32.60)
MP ($50)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP calls $0.50, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.5, 1 fold, MP calls $2.

Flop: ($5.50) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $4, MP raises to $9, Hero raises to $23.5, MP raises to $40, Hero raises to $79, MP calls $7.50 (All-In).

Turn: ($100.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($100.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $100.50

thac · #2 10-03-2007, 06:15 PM

Don't 3-bet his raise if you plan on folding to a 4-bet I think.

whyzze · #3 10-03-2007, 06:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Don't 3-bet his raise if you plan on folding to a 4-bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bill Smith · #4 10-03-2007, 06:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Don't 3-bet his raise if you plan on folding to a 4-bet I think.

[/ QUOTE ]

So would you call the almost min-raise and then donk a safe turn?

As played, a small raise followed by a 4-bet min-raise is a monster. Pocket 6's FTW. In a vaccum, I actually kinda like the 3-bet/fold given the stacks and board, but for metagame it kinda sucks.

Chomp · #5 10-03-2007, 06:38 PM

Reads matter here.

Certainly against a sane TAG, I call his flop raise and check turn hoping to god he checks behind. His flop raising range is a rather nasty combo of FD's (not that often), sets (pretty often), worse K's (kinda often) and bluffs (hardly ever from this villain). That's horrible RIO/owntown territory for us. And if it is one of the occasions he has a worse K, he has only 3 outs, so there's no rush to get value now. For these reasons, against a decent TAG, I call flop and try to get to cheap showdown, probably c/f lots of turns.

If villain's an aggro drooler, this makes overplaying weak K's, FD's and bluffs somewhat more likely on flop. But I might still call and get it in on an ok turn when a flush's equity has fallen.

Fwiw, I also think villains raise size on the flop is a bit of a tell - I think he wants you around with a K, but is somewhat concerned about the FD.

scallop · #6 10-03-2007, 06:55 PM

Yeah I think I can fold this when Im playing really well.

Biggest clue im beat is when he makes it $40 to go leaving $7 behind... this is a set alot imo.

That said you cant really call the flop raise (Im not a fan of calling and betting 'safe' turns. And once you 3-bet him you HAVE to call.

Sucks that he had a set, notch it down to variance.

Dunkman · #7 10-03-2007, 07:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Reads matter here.

Certainly against a sane TAG, I call his flop raise and check turn hoping to god he checks behind. His flop raising range is a rather nasty combo of FD's (not that often), sets (pretty often), worse K's (kinda often) and bluffs (hardly ever from this villain). That's horrible RIO/owntown territory for us. And if it is one of the occasions he has a worse K, he has only 3 outs, so there's no rush to get value now. For these reasons, against a decent TAG, I call flop and try to get to cheap showdown, probably c/f lots of turns.

If villain's an aggro drooler, this makes overplaying weak K's, FD's and bluffs somewhat more likely on flop. But I might still call and get it in on an ok turn when a flush's equity has fallen.

Fwiw, I also think villains raise size on the flop is a bit of a tell - I think he wants you around with a K, but is somewhat concerned about the FD.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty much everything I was thinking about this hand, only like more cohesive and thorough. Very nice post, I agree with everything.