25NL QQ -- Quick flop question

Nick C · #1 10-02-2007, 10:00 AM

Possibly preflop is worth discussing too.

I'm new to the table, but Button is looking like a preflop LAG already after one orbit plus the hands I spent waiting for my big blind. He's raised preflop frequently, and he knows how to bump up KTs and then flop the nut flush and slowplay to the river when donked into. (That hand accounts for a good chunk of his stack.) He also knows how to raise KTs and float MP's 5/7 pot donkbet on A54 with only undercards and backdoor flush/straight draws and then check it down upon spiking a T on the turn.

I don't know anything about MP except that he made that QJo HU semi-cold-call (from the SB) followed by an air donkbet on A54 that I just talked about. Maybe there's some history between him and Button.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($24.75)
Hero ($24.65)
UTG ($31.30)
MP ($23.50)
CO ($18.25)
Button ($51.70)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises to $1.25, 1 fold, Button calls $1.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $5, MP calls $3.75, Button calls $3.75.

Flop: ($15.10) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)

All right, my action. Now what? This wasn't the flop I was hoping for, obviously, but the most frequent thing that's going to happen is that I'm going to flop an overpair, and also I didn't think that Button and MP were necessarily both going to come along. Nevertheless, I have to say that my stack size seems pretty goddamn awkward now.

wslee00 · #2 10-02-2007, 10:18 AM

with the pot so bloated already, ure pretty much committed if you bet the flop. Call me weak, but I'm c/f'ing if someone bets that flop.

Pilket · #3 10-02-2007, 10:30 AM

3 ways, I think you're beat. The chances of one of these two having a king on reraised PF action is high enough for me to not want to waste any more money finding out. C/F flop. You also have the added bonus that you'll get to see the showdown: MP with KJs, Button with ATs or something along those lines.

Pilket

kroeliewoelie · #4 10-02-2007, 10:47 AM

I think c/f is fine. I expect to see at least one K here. So unless you have a talented for rivering Q's, I'd say save your money.

Your 3bet preflop is somewhat small I think. Since you already have two guys in the hand, the button will have great odds to call this. Furthermore you will be out of position for the rest of the hand and you will see a flop with at least one A or K 40% (or something like that) of the time.

Nick C · #5 10-02-2007, 11:11 AM

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you will see a flop with at least one A or K 40% (or something like that) of the time.

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Yeah, that's almost exactly right. (I looked it up. It's 41.4 percent.) Of course, a small portion of that 41.4 percent, you'll also flop a Q.

thac · #6 10-02-2007, 11:14 AM

I'd check because betting does nothing for our hand, it doesn't give us much additional information and it folds out all worse hands. If it checks through, I'm betting turn for value and possibly the river if there's one caller on turn.

Also, preflop seems too small, I'd make it 5.75 (but I'm just nitpicking now)

whyzze · #7 10-02-2007, 11:16 AM

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Also, preflop seems too small, I'd make it 5.75 (but I'm just nitpicking now)

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Really? I think 5 is about the max I would ever raise here. I would probably make it 4.

thac · #8 10-02-2007, 11:19 AM

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[ QUOTE ]

Also, preflop seems too small, I'd make it 5.75 (but I'm just nitpicking now)

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Really? I think 5 is about the max I would ever raise here. I would probably make it 4.

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There's a call in between the PFR and OP.

MaltbyStu · #9 10-02-2007, 01:22 PM

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[ QUOTE ]

Also, preflop seems too small, I'd make it 5.75 (but I'm just nitpicking now)

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Really? I think 5 is about the max I would ever raise here. I would probably make it 4.

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If my calculations are correct a PSB would be 1.25(MP)+ 1.25(BTN) + .10(SB) + 1.25 (hero call) = 3.85

Raising your 1.25 call by 3.85 = PSB of $5.10

The raise was therefore technically correct but an argument from some is to raise more being OOP. I'm not sure if that would apply with a raise and a caller since we would need to commit say $6 to the raise and would one of these villains fold for an extra buck?

It's a sticky situation for sure post flop and I would be tempted to check fold with two opponents OOP.

Stu