NL25: Premiums on paired flops vs unknowns allins

ranka · #1 10-01-2007, 04:50 PM

Two similar hands. I dont know anything about villains. No notes, no pahud stats (My HUD displaying stats for villains who have 100+hands - should I reduce hand amount?) Also looks like these kinds of hands are tons in this forum. But anyway I am dumbuser and I will post them [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($12.50)
BB ($47.75)
UTG ($34.50)
UTG+1 ($25.85)
MP1 ($11.30)
MP2 ($22.85)
MP3 ($24.75)
Hero ($38.55)
Button ($5)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, MP3 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1.5, 3 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $1.25.

Flop: ($3.60) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
MP3 checks, Hero bets $3, MP3 raises to $8, Hero ?

Hand2
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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

BB ($25)
UTG ($46.95)
UTG+1 ($22.15)
MP1 ($18.15)
Hero ($29.25)
CO ($22.50)
Button ($29.80)
SB ($37.40)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
3 folds, Hero raises to $1, CO calls $1, 1 fold, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold.

Flop: ($3.25) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB bets $0.25, Hero raises to $3, CO raises to $21.5, SB folds, Hero ?

Both hands clear folds against unknowns? Or what you think.

Nogatsira · #2 10-01-2007, 04:53 PM

I agree on hand 2, it's like here 25 cents, please reraise me so I can take your money cause I flopped trips.

I don't agree on hand 2 though, MP3's range is wide here.
He can just be making a move because he figured you probably missed this flop, he might reraise with a 9, any other pocket pair, .. You're way ahead of most of his range here.

zyrrth · #3 10-01-2007, 04:57 PM

Hand 1: I push/call and shove non spade turn.

Hand 2 is 3 way not Hu and without a read i think you gotta fold.

Mike Kelley · #4 10-01-2007, 04:58 PM

I push hand 1 because paired board makes a set a lot less likely

Call hand 2 because it looks like a frustrated/retarded heart draw to me.

CallMeJohn · #5 10-01-2007, 04:59 PM

Hand 1: Push. This is more likely an overpair than a monster.

Hand 2: Easy fold. Well played.

Also, display stats earlier than 100 hands since VPIP doesn't take much time to converge. You may need to display # of hands too.

Nogatsira · #6 10-01-2007, 04:59 PM

Oh indeed, missread hand 2, I thought it was SB who bet 25 and then shoved. Since it's CO who shoves then I think you're ahead cause honestly I don't see TT or a 5 shoving here

RapidEvolution · #7 10-01-2007, 05:00 PM

I utterly hate these situations. lol I know that this move CAN be made by middle pairs and air, but when I've taken to the felt, it's somoene who got lucky calling with scs and hit the paired card, or had a medium PP that hit the set (TT in this case). IMO, especially if you have a tight pre-flop raise range, the villain is expecting you to stack off with an overpair...but maybe I just see monsters. lol [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]