yet another free SD raise

[n.s.]

9 handed 12-24 game.

Villain in this hand is pretty bad, but a little inconsistent. He doesn't play every hand PF, but he'll show up with some absolute garbage sometimes. In a previous hand, he cold-called a cap out of the SB (cold-called 3.5 bets) with utter trash (something like J4o) - he seems to like to call virtually ATC in big pots. Post-flop, he's mostly just loose. I don't yet have a good feel for his PF raising standards, but I think he can definitely raise and re-raise a bit light and he seems bad at hand-reading.

The rest of the table ranges from decent but too loose pre-flop, to just bad. No one else is playing particularly aggressive right now.

My image is sorta unremarkable - I've been playing a fair amount of hands since I've been getting good cards, and I've been winning some and losing others (the losers generally being ui high cards that I haven't shown down).

PF Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
several people limp and MP1 (villain) raises, Hero 3-bets, folds to the limpers who call, villain caps, everyone calls.

Flop Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players, 16 BB)
limper 1 checks, limper 2 checks, villain bets, hero calls, limper 1 calls, limper 2 folds.

Turn T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players, 8.5 BB)
limper checks, villain bets, hero raises, limper folds, villain calls.

River 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players, 12.5)
villain checks, hero checks.

Any value to the free showdown raise here? I thought I might have as many as 10 outs, I'm probably gonna be forced to showdown just in case villain has AK as well in this huge pot, I might save myself half the pot if I can get the limper to fold an underpair, and I make an extra bet if I catch broadway on the end.

I thought about raising the flop, but no one is folding anything to the flop raise and I didn't think my equity was all that good. Raise anyway?

meh?

[Crusher19]

you didnt overplay this hand at all(sarcasm) you're raise on the turn was not a free showdown raise it was a bluff, but if you do raise the turn you might as well bluff the river too. whats one more bet at this pot. I dont think you have much of a chance though.

[mongidig]

I don't mind a free showdown raise against a single opponent, but against more than one you may be asking for trouble. This turn raise here is more of a semibluff since you most likely don't have the best hand but have outs to improve. The problem is semibluffing two players is very difficult to do. I would only raise the turn here if I thought that both players were capable of folding right then and there, I wouldn't be doing it for a free showdown. If getting to showdown is your intent then I think raising the flop and taking a free card on turn is a better play. You may think that since the pot is big the other players will have odds to call, however, this assumes they know what you have and are considering pot odds.

The play you make will be dependant on the styles of your opponents. Is the villian aggressive enough to three bet on the flop or bet out the turn to spoil your free card? Will he three bet your turn raise with two pair or overpair spoiling your free showdown raise?

As played, I think I would just call the turn and hope to still get a free showdown when villian checks. This also gives you the chance to raise a good river card and fold if conditions change.

In summery: I would raise the flop since your opponent has a wide range and the pot is big. Either bet or check turn depending on the action and board. If heads up on end I would have to depend on reads and who is betting to determine whether to call uninproved.

I will say that raising the turn to get the other player off of a better hand is intriguing but I would have to be there to make this play.

[gameoverjc]

I more tend to go for this play if the turn was a 10 of hearts and held the ace of hearts so I know there would be little chance in it getting 3-bet back to me.

Problem with this hand is you still don't know if your ace/king are clean outs, and by action stated it looks like mp1 wants to showdown.

[HOWMANY]

This isn't a free showdown raise, this is a charge yourself the absolute maximum to draw to 10 outs raise.

[n.s.]

Thanks all for the input.

To all of you that said this was not a showdown raise but a hopeless semi-bluff (basically everyone) - would you just be content to fold to a river bet UI? What if the limper folds to the turn bet and it's heads-up with the capper, is it still too optimistic to make the crying call?

That was the crux of the hand for me - if I didn't feel obligated to showdown my nut nothing, I would definitely not have raised the turn.

[HOWMANY]

A weak playing fish capped preflop and keeps betting into the field postflop, your hand isn't best unless he misread his cards.

[lucid75]

I hate this raise. You have 10outs at best. If you're going to play the hand, flat call the turn. You don't have the best hand on the turn in this spot ever ever ever...and you have no fold equity.

You could've played the hand worse by betting the river and mucking before he shows his cards.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]

Any value to the free showdown raise here?

[/ QUOTE ]

I call, and let the guy behind me in which gives me more value on my draw. If villain wants to bluff into me and the other dude on the river, more power to him.