16/18 : tough spot with TT in lvl 1

MVPaul · #1 09-20-2007, 09:43 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 (t1890)
MP3 (t1580)
CO (t1090)
Button (t1330)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1380)
UTG (t1500)
Hero (t1500)
MP1 (t1750)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t100, MP1 calls t100, 6 folds.

Flop: (t230) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t140, MP1 raises to t280, Hero calls t140.

Turn: (t790) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t1370 (All-In), Hero calls t1120 (All-In).

River: (t3280) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t3030

I think AK and KQ are raising more on the flop and that a flush is not pushing the turn... good call?

bucktotal · #2 09-20-2007, 10:50 PM

the action looks a bit weird, but when i glanced over the hand, my initial thoughts were.

pf: raise to t60, no need to bloat a pot OOP this deep.

flop: bet t100, call the minraise or b/f.

turn: c/f.

erc007 · #3 09-21-2007, 03:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 (t1890)
MP3 (t1580)
CO (t1090)
Button (t1330)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1380)
UTG (t1500)
Hero (t1500)
MP1 (t1750)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t100, MP1 calls t100, 6 folds.

Flop: (t230) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t140, MP1 raises to t280, Hero calls t140.

Turn: (t790) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t1370 (All-In), Hero calls t1120 (All-In).

River: (t3280) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t3030

I think AK and KQ are raising more on the flop and that a flush is not pushing the turn... good call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a very common and costly mistake that solid players make too frequently in low-med buy-in tourneys, is making reads based upon (weak/poor player's) bet sizes.

In this hand your assumption is that bet size x (flop); y (turn) represent a given range for a solid/good player. The reality often is that random player z (MP1 in this hand), may have no clue when it comes to proper/correct bet-sizing (esp post-flop) whatsoever.

Consequently, making a read on MP1, based upon flop/turn bet/raise-sizes, without 1st having established that he/she is a decent/solid/good player, might not yield an accurate range. Using bet-sizes as a tool to narrow the range of an opponent is essential to every winning player, but you have to observe the player in question's previous actions before you make a read like this in a big pot.

In this hand, i could see a bad villain min-raising the your c-bet with a set (as he always does, on any board)...then shoving the turn out of fear when the 3rd club comes out. It could also be some ridic semi-bluff with 77, but in my experince, bad villains are not inclined to semi-bluff AI on the turn very often, most of their bluffs/semi-bluffs come on the flop or river.

MVPaul · #4 09-21-2007, 01:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP2 (t1890)
MP3 (t1580)
CO (t1090)
Button (t1330)
SB (t1480)
BB (t1380)
UTG (t1500)
Hero (t1500)
MP1 (t1750)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t100, MP1 calls t100, 6 folds.

Flop: (t230) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t140, MP1 raises to t280, Hero calls t140.

Turn: (t790) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets t1370 (All-In), Hero calls t1120 (All-In).

River: (t3280) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: t3030

I think AK and KQ are raising more on the flop and that a flush is not pushing the turn... good call?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a very common and costly mistake that solid players make too frequently in low-med buy-in tourneys, is making reads based upon (weak/poor player's) bet sizes.

In this hand your assumption is that bet size x (flop); y (turn) represent a given range for a solid/good player. The reality often is that random player z (MP1 in this hand), may have no clue when it comes to proper/correct bet-sizing (esp post-flop) whatsoever.

Consequently, making a read on MP1, based upon flop/turn bet/raise-sizes, without 1st having established that he/she is a decent/solid/good player, might not yield an accurate range. Using bet-sizes as a tool to narrow the range of an opponent is essential to every winning player, but you have to observe the player in question's previous actions before you make a read like this in a big pot.

In this hand, i could see a bad villain min-raising the your c-bet with a set (as he always does, on any board)...then shoving the turn out of fear when the 3rd club comes out. It could also be some ridic semi-bluff with 77, but in my experince, bad villains are not inclined to semi-bluff AI on the turn very often, most of their bluffs/semi-bluffs come on the flop or river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. So I'll assume this is a fold for you?

Sherman · #5 09-21-2007, 01:54 PM

I'd often just muck to the min-raise on the flop. But calling and check/folding the turn is still better than calling and check/calling the turn U/I.