Nl25 - Easy call on river?

Ironic · #1 09-14-2007, 09:33 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 ($28.15)
MP2 ($21.75)
CO ($16.95)
Button ($8.55)
SB ($25)
BB ($46.20)
UTG ($18.85)
Hero ($25.45)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.75, 4 folds.

Flop: ($1.85) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

Turn: ($1.85) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, MP2 calls $1.50.

River: ($4.85) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $3.5, MP2 raises to $19.5, Hero calls $16.

Final Pot: $43.85
---------------------------
No stats on villain.

Klompy · #2 09-14-2007, 09:38 AM

Checking that flop is a really bad idea. I guess I call the river, but I'm not thrilled about it.

CazicT · #3 09-14-2007, 09:40 AM

Tell me what you think he has that you beat and what the chances are that he is on a bluff?

Reads would help us if you had them, but if not, you have to go with what you think the default 25NL player is. I'm thinking there's little chance that he doesn't have a full house.

Ironic · #4 09-14-2007, 09:44 AM

Why are you not thrilled about calling the river? Also why is checking the flop a bad idea besides the usual risk of being outdrawn?

Ironic · #5 09-14-2007, 09:48 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking there's little chance that he doesn't have a full house.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you saying that since I'm posting this hand here or is that what you would really think while out there playing? Surely at NL25 most would shouve their trip kings with moderate kicker? If not please tell me.

mmctrab · #6 09-14-2007, 09:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Why are you not thrilled about calling the river? Also why is checking the flop a bad idea besides the usual risk of being outdrawn?

[/ QUOTE ]

What would be the benefit of checking the flop? Are you slowplaying thinking you'll get more money in? With the clubs on the board I'd certainly bet out. On the river I think he's got the boat and you're toast. So your slowplaying may well have cost you this pot.

CazicT · #7 09-14-2007, 09:55 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm thinking there's little chance that he doesn't have a full house.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are you saying that since I'm posting this hand here or is that what you would really think while out there playing? Surely at NL25 most would shouve their trip kings with moderate kicker? If not please tell me.

[/ QUOTE ]

There IS some chance of this yes, however, since you raised PF, what King with moderate kicker could he have...

KQ=Full House
KJ-OK, some 25NL players would call raise with it some wouldn't
KT-Same, but even less probable

Our options are limited unless we know that the villian is pretty liberal caller of PF raises.

I guess since you only raised 3XBB, it makes it a bit more possible, but i'm still very concerned that there aren't alot of hands we beat.

And if I was at the table, it's possible I might call because I might not have time to think it through so clearly, but now I do. I'm just saying the call isn't at all easy. It may be correct, but it's probably pretty close.

Ironic · #8 09-14-2007, 09:55 AM

mmctrab you can see no benefit to checking the flop? Unless he has QQ or KQ there is only a small chance he will outdraw me.

mmctrab · #9 09-14-2007, 09:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
mmctrab you can see no benefit to checking the flop? Unless he has QQ or KQ there is only a small chance he will outdraw me.

[/ QUOTE ]

There are two clubs on the board. Plus, if he has a K rag hand or a pocket pair he can boat up which looks like it just happened.

Ironic · #10 09-14-2007, 10:06 AM

Don't get me wrong I don't like to slow play and I very rarely do it, I thought this would be a scenario where it might be permissable.

Anyway the real question is the call at the end. Bad call?