Strategy: Chaging PF raise sizes according to position

[ElectricWaffles]

Hi all. I thought i'd bring this up, it's a strategy I read in 'Phil Gordon's Little Green Book'. Not having the book to hand I can't remember the exact page/chapter.

He advocated making different sized raises when you're first in and you're going to raise, based upon your position.

If I remember correctly he suggested 2.5-3xBB in EP, 3-3.5xBB in MP and 3.5-4 in LP. Obviously this is just a guidline and has got to changed based on the table dynamics, however his main point was. Raise a lesser amount in EP than in LP.

This seems to make sense to me because, on average, i'll be losing more/winning less when i'm OOP, therfore I want to be playing for smaller pots. Is this good poker thinking? What would be the arguements for/against this, as a rule of thumb?

[Mike Kelley]

Are you going to raise you aces and kings 2.5x from EP? Personally it takes all the restraint I have not to raise them 20x when I'm UTG and I know I'm gonna be playing it out of position the rest of the hand.

[ElectricWaffles]

Point taken. But then is it not the case that you're making a bigger pot OOP (assuming you get a call) than you would in position, and you're less likely to win the pot because of your position?

I guess using this strategy you would have to raise just 2.5-3BB UTG with KK, as you do with the rest of your raising hands so you dont give away what you're holding

Edit: Roll with me on this, i'm just exploring the idea

[threads13]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you going to raise you aces and kings 2.5x from EP? Personally it takes all the restraint I have not to raise them 20x when I'm UTG and I know I'm gonna be playing it out of position the rest of the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


So limp them... have somebody raise you... and then reraise them.


Yep... totally exploitable... get over it. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[diebitter]

I really don't think it matters much at all, as long as you're in roughly the same ballpark (around 3-4bb + 1 per limper), and if you adjust it purely by position, and NEVER by hand strength alone. So feel free to do it if you like it.

A more sophisticated approach is to use randomisation to decide amount of raise at a ratio good enough to wrongfoot. For example your powerhouse hands (AA-QQ) you raise x5BB 70% of the time, and x3BB 30% of the time, and vice versa for lesser hands you want to raise in early (like 99, say). But honestly, unless your playing quite a sophisticated lag strategy that involves betting with stuff like SC in early, it's not worth the bother.

[1p0kerboy]

It's not a bad strategy when you're short-stacked. But it doesn't bode well when you're any kind of deep for the following reasons:

[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]You are putting more money into the pot with your weaker hands than you are your stronger ones.
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]You are encouraging your opponents to play more pots with you when THEY have position as opposed to when YOU have position.
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]You are increasing your opponents' implied odds against your "top-pair" hands rather than decreasing their implied odds.

[Larude]

Actually I am also messing around with this strategy, openraising less in EP1 to MP1 and more from MP2 to Button. I think it lets me play smaller pots with difficult hands OOP like AQ, AK, KQs and AJs + I can raise my SC's and smaller pairs also for a smaller amount and don't get caught on this (smaller beginpots for SC are ideal I think for FE later for the B3B strategy OOP); and if I raise with smaller pocketpairs and I get reraised I can call more often...

[Larude]

[ QUOTE ]
It's not a bad strategy when you're short-stacked. But it doesn't bode well when you're any kind of deep for the following reasons:

[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]You are putting more money into the pot with your weaker hands than you are your stronger ones.
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]You are encouraging your opponents to play more pots with you when THEY have position as opposed to when YOU have position.
[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]You are increasing your opponents' implied odds against your "top-pair" hands rather than decreasing their implied odds.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ad1: with your weaker hands you will have better position this could certainly outbalance the fact that you are playing a bigger pot.
Ad2,3: Villains are getting implied odds no mather what, sometimes it is even better for villains if we raise more preflop because we will stack off more easily if the pot is bigger. By the way I don't think so many more villains will enter if you raise 3BB instead of 4BB.

[five4suited]

Tried this for a while; it failed miserably. Of course, that could have been my pokering. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

If I want the pot small preflop, I'll limp. If I like the raiser/action, I'll limp-call. Otherwise, I wait to fight another day.

[Mr_Donktastic]

I used to do this at <100nl but stopped.

I don't know what that means, just thought I'd share [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]