10/20 limit button/bb war

XXsooted · #1 09-10-2007, 05:52 PM

Poker Stars
Limit Omaha Ring game
Limit: $10/$20
9 players
Converter

I don't know anything about villian

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is Button with 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
6 folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises, Hero 3-bets, BB caps, Hero calls.

Is 3bet okay? Typical capping range here? Is it always A2 or A3 + some kind of high? I 3bet because I assumed a big blind would 3bet an A2 or A3 hand against the button preflop, but I could be way off about that.

Turn: Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Probably way spewy against an unknown, I know...

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (12.25BB, 2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Fold low flush getting 13.25 to 1? Seems like when he 3bets turn he has to have a higher flush, but I guess I'm too used to holdem where people's ranges are really wide in blind battles

Results:
Final pot: 14.25BB

TheCount212 · #2 09-10-2007, 06:15 PM

This seems like an awful lot of aggression for someone holding a 6 high flush and no guaranteed low on board. The question isn't really whether you should fold the river. It's why you 3 bet the flop and raised the turn when (a) you don't have the nuts and (b) villain hasn't missed a single opportunity to bet.

zizazziza · #3 09-10-2007, 06:34 PM

umm.. ignore what he said. You have a OESD + many outs to what could be the best hand. He is going to be this aggressive on the flop with set or maybe even 2pr.
I think that flop is fine since his c/r range is so large.
When the turn hits you, I think you HAVE to raise. However, when he 3b you, you have to realize that this is your chance to fold. If he has the nut flush (or a higher one) as he is repping you should fold, but he could have set and its unknown so I would like to know whats going on since im calling 2bb to win 5.5bb I would call.
The river sucks b/c you are ALMOST never good. However
its 13:1 on your money and I have to call and find out what hes calling you with pf.
Also, flop betting could be done with A23 where you have him in pretty good shape here with your FD.

TheCount212 · #4 09-10-2007, 06:52 PM

I thought that baby flushes weren't something to get terribly excited about..
what do you think the chances are that villain here is a maniac who's jamming with an uncounterfeitable low draw and gambling it up while praying for the low to hit the river?

zizazziza · #5 09-10-2007, 06:59 PM

im saying the turn is your chance to fold. but remember this is a BSB hand and I think you have to widen his range when he c/r you on the flop.

TheCount212 · #6 09-10-2007, 07:09 PM

i totally agree with you that the turn fold is a good idea.

zizazziza · #7 09-10-2007, 07:13 PM

im not saying its a good idea. im saying thats where one COULD get away from the hand. But when you call the turn you are calling the river and hating yourself for raising the turn when you should have anyways.

XXsooted · #8 09-10-2007, 08:48 PM

One of my main questions was is it normal for the big blind to just call here with an A2 or A3 hand? I almost always 3bet these hands in the big blind's position. Only time I don't is if I'm playing a regular and want to mix up my play.

Buzz · #9 09-10-2007, 10:03 PM

A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img],3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is not a particularly good starting hand in a nine handed game. It's not absolutely horrid, but it's not good either.

You raise with it and get heads-up. Usually when that happens in a nine-handed game, you end up heads-up against the best hand in eight that was dealt to your opponents. As it turns out, this time you end up heads-up against the big blind.

Your hand looks better for one-on-one play against a random hand than for multi-opponent play, but maybe not against the only hand out of eight that calls you, even if it is the big blind.

But for one-on-one play, your hand lacks high card strength (except for the ace), and the pair of sixes stinks. And if you're up against ace-deuce, so does the ace-trey. And if you're up against higher hearts, so does the baby flush draw.

The big blind doesn't necessarily have much of a hand to defend, but with everyone else out of the hand, BB's hand might actually be something this time. Hard to say.

But you do like the flop. This is a nice, but not perfect flop for you. BB checks and you bet. Fine.

But then BB says "I have something this time." (He does that by check-raising). He could be bluffing with the check-raise. The way I call an opponent's bluff, when I'm not sure if he's bluffing or not, is I call.

I don't get the raise.

But although I don't get it, I don't think it's terrible.

And then BB re-raises. Now he's either (1) bluffing, (2) over-valuing his hand, or (3) he really does have something.

Next either (1) you over-value your own hand, and/or (2) think you can overpower BB, and/or (3) without knowing BB you somehow really have become convinced he is bluffing.

That impresses me as maniacal.

Next the turn enables a flush and BB bets right into you. BB bets as though he's afraid if he checks you won't bet for him. BB bets as though he has the stone cold nuts and is unwilling to risk another check-raise.

And amazingly, you don't believe him. If I didn't believe him, I'd call his possible bluff.

Instead you raise! That is definitely maniacal.

I'll give you this much: you're fearless.

I imagine you got your ass kicked here.

Buzz

XXsooted · #10 09-11-2007, 03:18 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Usually when that happens in a nine-handed game, you end up heads-up against the best hand in eight that was dealt to your opponents. As it turns out, this time you end up heads-up against the big blind

[/ QUOTE ]

It was folded to me on the button.

[ QUOTE ]
A,6,6,3 is not a particularly good starting hand in a nine handed game. It's not absolutely horrid, but it's not good either.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think the blinds fold enough for it to be profitable to play here (assuming you play better postflop than me [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img])

[ QUOTE ]
He could be bluffing with the check-raise. The way I call an opponent's bluff, when I'm not sure if he's bluffing or not, is I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was value-raising. I thought his range would be pretty wide since he was in the big blind. I thought a big part of his range included a worse low. I'm very new to bilnd battles in this game, so I know I could be way off here.

[ QUOTE ]
Next either (1) you over-value your own hand, and/or (2) think you can overpower BB, and/or (3) without knowing BB you somehow really have become convinced he is bluffing.

That impresses me as maniacal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not sure what you're talking about here. I think you meant to refer to the turn raise. And ya, I agree that the turn raise was bad since I can't really fold to a 3-bet with my lo draw.

[ QUOTE ]
I imagine you got your ass kicked here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol ya how'd you guess? He obv had nut flush. What surprised me was that he had the A3 to go along with it. I had assumed he'd 3-bet preflop with this hand. Just to make sure, most players in the big blind would 3-bet any A2, right?