Yikes, lay this down?

RobTheCrook · #1 09-10-2007, 07:39 PM

$4/180, Villain likes to use pos to take pots away from players.

Was planning on just calling a bet on the river depending on the size. When he checked I tried to get a little bit of value out of like a KJ, AJ AT hand. Don't know what to do against the check raise though.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero (t4095)
Button (t3545)
SB (t12036)
BB (t3210)
UTG (t570)
UTG+1 (t7245)
MP1 (t2495)
MP2 (t1585)
MP3 (t4725)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises to t250, 1 fold, SB calls t200, BB calls t150.

Flop: (t750) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t425, SB folds, BB calls t425.

Turn: (t1600) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (t1600) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t600, BB raises to t2535, Hero?

erc007 · #2 09-10-2007, 08:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
$4/180, Villain likes to use pos to take pots away from players.

Was planning on just calling a bet on the river depending on the size. When he checked I tried to get a little bit of value out of like a KJ, AJ AT hand. Don't know what to do against the check raise though.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t100 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero (t4095)
Button (t3545)
SB (t12036)
BB (t3210)
UTG (t570)
UTG+1 (t7245)
MP1 (t2495)
MP2 (t1585)
MP3 (t4725)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
5 folds, Hero raises to t250, 1 fold, SB calls t200, BB calls t150.

Flop: (t750) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets t425, SB folds, BB calls t425.

Turn: (t1600) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

River: (t1600) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets t600, BB raises to t2535, Hero?

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty sure i hate every street here. Raise to 300 pre (although this is not a big deal/mistake.)

You have to play this hand faster on the flop and turn. You have a good hand here on a board that will get u action from hands that you beat. Bet 550-600 (650-700 if u made it 300 pre) on the flop.

I think u have to bet (1/2 pot) on this turn as well, not to protect your hand, but b/c you lose too much value here w 2pair when u check. Checking would be fine if u had JJ;AJ;AT.

As played river is prob a fold, if you're going to block the river, make it like 850-900 (that'll still get you value from worse hands and make it tougher for him to make a move with air, or bluff you with a worse made hand.) I don't hate bettting 600 if you're calling a c/r AI.

flettl2 · #3 09-10-2007, 08:19 PM

I don't know what to do on the river, you're getting good odds with 2.5:1 on the call, but this isn't the safest board to have 2 pair on. Check calling then check raising the river usually means something bigger than your middle 2 pairs. Instead of having to deal with this why didn't you bet the turn? It's a very scary board, any 10, J, A, 4 or heart on the river is bad, you should be betting 3/4 the pot here.

fredd-bird · #4 09-10-2007, 10:16 PM

Yes lay it down.

As played I Check behind on the river. If the river was not a scare card I would probably do a 1/2 - 2/3 pot value bet.

nancyloum1 · #5 09-10-2007, 11:13 PM

You've really screwed yourself by not betting the turn here. He could have a flush, of course, but he could just as easily have a whiffed straight draw or a bad K. Both of which I think are more likely. He probably sees you as weak, which certainly seems to be the case, and he could be pushing with almost anything. I can't imagine him getting a straight on the draw and then checking three times like that, hoping you'll bet on the river so he can RRAI. That takes way more discipline than anyone in $4 ever shows. If you were planning on folding to his re-raise, you shouldn't have bet the river at all.

Coz · #6 09-10-2007, 11:39 PM

Although I do agree with the others that say that you pretty much played every street wrong, I would call the river bet. Your action looks like a bluff, we bet flop, checked turn, and thought that because our opponent showed weakeness we can steal it on the river. Although I would have checked behind, I think we are ahead here over 28% of the time which would make calling +Ev. I mean what range do we have our opponent on, AK probably would have raised us preflop, AQ probably would have too, although it is a possibility he called with it. AA, KK, and QQ also would have popped it up. I think villian has something like AJ, KJ, KT, or even something like TT. My range may be a little loose but not enough to make folding the right move IMHO.

RobTheCrook · #7 09-11-2007, 12:38 AM

I mainly checked behind on the turn because based on my read on him I made four assumptions.

1. He would have led out with an ace, not check/call.
2. That was exactly how he would play the flopped straight.
3. I think I might lose value from a hand like KT KJ if I bet again on the turn, as I might get him to call a small bet on the river.
4. On the river I was pretty sure he would bet big with a strong hand and bet weak/check with a weaker hand/whiffed draw.

It may have been better to bet the turn, but what happens if I get check/raised there? Insta fold? Disregarding that a backdoor flush may have gotten there, what has changed from the turn to the river here? What do I do if he calls again on the turn and then bets out the river?

I thought that checking behind on the turn here put me in a much easier spot to play than betting the turn. I felt like I could get much more accurate information about his hand this way.

Not saying that I was right, because I was in a very confusing spot on the river that I did not expect to be in. I'm pretty sure now that the pot is big enough that checking behind on the river is probably the best choice in this situation as played.