25NL Shove Flop or give it up turn

[neil705]

i kinda just shoved on the turn out of tilt i know but would it be better to just shove the flop or bet pot give up on turn? villian 39/12

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.10/$0.25 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $18.40
Hero (BB): $24.40
UTG: $32.05
CO: $21.90
BTN: $21.30

Preflop: Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 Players)
UTG folds, <font color="red">CO raises to $0.50</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $0.40, <font color="red">Hero raises to $3.00</font>, CO calls $2.50, SB folds

Flop: ($6.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets $6.50</font>, CO calls $6.50

Turn: ($19.50) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">Hero bets all-in for $14.90</font>, CO calls all-in for $12.40
Uncalled bet of $2.50 returned to Hero

River: ($44.30) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 2 All-In)

Pot Size: $44.30 ($2.20 Rake)

CO had Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (a flush, Queen high) and WON (+$20.20)
Hero had J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a flush, Jack high) and LOST (-$21.90)

[neil705]

?

[Keitan]

You played this fine. Forget that you were beat. When analyzing your hands try to forget about the result, and just focus on whether your decisions were +EV given all the info at ur disposal at that time. You really couldn't have played this hand any other way.

[Sledgejammer]

Open shoving the flop there is crazy. Extract value from the drawers and top pair hands that may have you on a draw while denying the drawers the proper odds to draw, which is exactly what you did on the flop. Villain made an incorrect call, which means you played it fine.

I'd check the turn though, and calling the shove would be based on reads. But the flop bet is fine.

[Keitan]

You would have to be a mind reader to get away from this hand on the turn, forget it.

[Nick C]

[ QUOTE ]
Open shoving the flop there is crazy. Extract value from the drawers and top pair hands that may have you on a draw while denying the drawers the proper odds to draw, which is exactly what you did on the flop. Villain made an incorrect call, which means you played it fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

FWIW, if Villain could see our cards on the flop, he'd be crazy to fold his overs, gutshot, and flush draw (even with us holding two blockers and a redraw on the gutshot). I didn't Stove it, and the redraws against Villain's non-flush outs complicate things a little, but it looks like about a coinflip to me.

Anyway, though, I think Hero's flop bet is fine. The turn is tougher, but I wouldn't assume I was beat the second the fourth spade fell.

[wire]

Considering that flop, your flop bet is way too big. And his call should have alarmed you. His call was thin here though.

When the 4th spade hits, I don't think you can assume your jack high flush is good. The villain wouldn't have called your flop bet with a mediocre flush draw.

You're push on the turn is okay. Nothing to regret. He called you down with a Q high flush. Give him credit for making a good read.

[neil705]

its always hands like this that put me right back at break even for a session

[monkover]

open shoving the turn is stupid though. you fold out worse flushes and pay vs better ones...

@nic here´s the pokerstove
and you were right it is a flip


Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

990 games 0.005 secs 198,000 games/sec

Board: 3s 9s Ts
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.475% 47.47% 00.00% 470 0.00 { JhJs }
Hand 1: 52.525% 52.53% 00.00% 520 0.00 { KdQs }

[Jw513]

I would bet about $5 on flop, just so its easier to get away. Turn shove is pretty bad. I think check/fold would be best.