when it is bad to be hard to play against

[McStinky]

I usually play in live games, and since I play tighter than most people, I am able to get a reputation for always having a really strong hand when I am betting. This is great because the fish will still pay me off, and I can get away with lots of bluffs on everyone else.

Every once in a while, I will make a slightly weird play because it seems to be the best move for the current situation. For example, floating the flop with nothing, value betting really thin, just calling preflop with AA, etc. Occasionally I will have to show down the hand, and all of a sudden people see that I can show up with some really unexpected hands. Basically what this does is widen my range in their mind.

Now most posts I have read say that it is a good thing to be thought of as tricky and have a wide range, but in this case the opposite seems to be true. Before, they gave me a narrow range and I knew what it was (and it didn't correspond to my actual range), and as a consequence I could get a good idea of what they had. But as soon as I am perceived as tricky, the range in their mind gets all messed up, and this causes them to play differently, and I have a harder time putting them on hands.

So I guess my claim is that it you don't want to be seen as tricky by mediocre players, but maybe if you are playing really good players there are benefits. Is this right? If so, what is an example of taking advantage of your wider range to get more money out of a good player? Sorry if this is all obvious stuff but it seems a little tricky to me.

[Albert Moulton]

[ QUOTE ]
...what is an example of taking advantage of your wider range to get more money out of a good player?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you play (bet or call) post flop with strong hands 100% of the time, then you will win a lot of small pots, and lose a few big ones. Basically, you make it easy for opponents to avoid mistakes post flop in big pots. They can fold if they are behind, and bet if they are ahead. They can also use position on you, if you aren't careful, to steal if you slow down on the turn or river when you have weak hands due to the board texture.

If you bet post flop with strong hands 75% of the time, draws 20% of the time, and air or weak draws (gutshots, backdoor flushes, etc.) 5% of the time, then they are making mistakes in small and medium pots 25% of the time when they fold to your drawing/bluff bets. So, they'll call more. But then they'll be making mistakes 75% of the time when you have strong hands. And occasionally, they will make a stand with a good but not great hand in a very big pot only to find you have some unusual hand that made the nuts on the turn and you will win his stack.

Basically, mixing up your play a little increases the likelihood of your opponents making big mistakes (in the sense of the Fundamental Theorem of Poker) on later rounds of betting by either folding when they are ahead, or calling when they are behind.

[Terrabon98]

IF you are perceived at tight, theoretically you should be getting knocked off of a lot of marginal hands by more aggressive players.

Of course, if you are lucky enough to be playing in good enough games where you can play ABC and win lots of money, then there is no reason not to keep doing it...if you think randomly floating and getting caught will change their perception of you THAT much, and net you less money, then don't do it...

Of course, if you are playing against most bad players, they won't consciously change how they play against you too much, they will just be more apt to call down a lot...which is good, and should make it even easier for you


If I could just play TAG abc and win a ton of money, i would. I certainly don't play high-variance, high-stress poker because it makes me look cool, i do it b/c i have to...why have a tricky image if you don't need it?

[McStinky]

[ QUOTE ]
IF you are perceived at tight, theoretically you should be getting knocked off of a lot of marginal hands by more aggressive players.

Of course, if you are lucky enough to be playing in good enough games where you can play ABC and win lots of money, then there is no reason not to keep doing it...if you think randomly floating and getting caught will change their perception of you THAT much, and net you less money, then don't do it...

Of course, if you are playing against most bad players, they won't consciously change how they play against you too much, they will just be more apt to call down a lot...which is good, and should make it even easier for you


If I could just play TAG abc and win a ton of money, i would. I certainly don't play high-variance, high-stress poker because it makes me look cool, i do it b/c i have to...why have a tricky image if you don't need it?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not really bothered by variance. I am just looking to maximize profits over the long run. I was just surprised when I realized that going from a tight image to a tricky image could actually lose me money because it gets harder to make the careful players fold to me (the fish still pay off no matter what, but this is 5/10 NL so there are enough careful players to make this a real issue).

Will I make some suboptimal plays so that I can maintain my non-tricky image? That seems like going too far. No matter what, I will eventually get caught with my pants down and have to adjust to it. I probably just need to think more about what each of the decent players thinks of me, not just assume they will put me on a huge hand when I checkraise the flop or something, and go from there.

[fslexcduck]

just to be a nit, a more appropriate title would be "when it is bad to be perceived as hard to play against."

the actual title is misleading because it's never bad to be hard to play against - if you're easy to play against, by definition, players play better against you and therefore make more +EV decisions.