TT facing large overbet on K high flop

bambam16 · #1 09-06-2007, 10:08 PM

Stars $11 20k guaranteed.

I've been more aggressive in the 400/800 and 500/1000 blind levels with a large stack. I just got moved to this table 15 to 20 hands ago, and lost about 20% of my stack on a blind steal/call all in v. a short stack who had a better ace, so I've tipped my hand a bit on what kind of hands I've been raising.

Villian just got to the table 3 hands ago, so no solid reads on him. Has not played a hand yet.

This overbet confused the hell out of me, especially since villian was new to the table. I wasn't sure if it was a donkish all in or if he was trying to trap me. What do you do here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t1000 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

MP1 (t12463)
MP2 (t15092)
MP3 (t9407)
CO (t6665)
Button (t65963)
SB (t48870)
BB (t64880)
Hero (t37278)
UTG+1 (t26546)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t3000, UTG+1 calls t3000, 7 folds.

Flop: (t6800) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets t23000, Hero ???

Acein8ter · #2 09-06-2007, 10:15 PM

Sometimes making a Cbet changes the thought process of your opponents.... sometimes not.

If you made a Cbet and he 3 bet you, you have to make a decision on weather he has a hugh hand or is using his position on you and is bluffing...

Maybe villian hit a set of 3's or 8's here...? I'd give it up and wait until you have an edge before putting your stack at risk.

bambam16 · #3 09-06-2007, 10:23 PM

Oh yeah, forgot to explain the check.

I didn't think leading out was good here because I don't see a lot of worse hands calling. I might be able to make a better hand fold, but honestly I doubt it. And I didn't want to inflate the pot if he just flat called me on the flop - to me this seemed like a good flop for my opponent to float me.

My original plan was to check/call flop, push any non-club T or lower turn.

Acein8ter · #4 09-06-2007, 10:27 PM

I'll usually make those types of plays when I'm ITM already and everyone is playing cautiously...

bambam16 · #5 09-06-2007, 10:30 PM

It's been a while since I posted my own hands on this forum obviously...this was about 10 from the money bubble.

Coz · #6 09-06-2007, 10:35 PM

Well he could have called your hand with something like KQ, or KJ, although I would associate a low percentage to those hands as well as AK. For me this screams a good drawing hand that would either really like you to fold, or a made hand with very few outs that would also like you to fold. I think he could have something like AA, or QQ, JJ, maybe 99. As for the draw he may have something like AQ of clubs or AJs. However, it could also be a flopped set. I think this is a fold, I definetly think you can find a better spot to get your chips in. Me, however, being so impulsive probably would have called.

hamnegger · #7 09-06-2007, 10:56 PM

fold bc you gave up control of the hand.he may have jj qq.

bambam16 · #8 09-06-2007, 11:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
fold bc you gave up control of the hand.he may have jj qq.

[/ QUOTE ]

What line do you take on the flop here? Bet and fold to a raise? I just saw it as a flop that someone could easily bluff me off of if I bet.

levAA · #9 09-07-2007, 05:03 AM

The last days we have many TT posts in early position - which underlines the problems that these hands bring with them.

I think your preflop raise with the stack sizes is a good one. As villain has no reads on you his call could mean either a PP lower than yours or JJ (maybe QQ). Aces and kings should reraise this in early position (but we cannot completely exclude them.

The second possibilities are Aces like AK,AQ (AJ) - I personally would reraise/push with AK here but ok.

I think these possiblities are the most probable (maybe we should add high SC like KQ/QJ).

So I think the only hands you fear on this flop are AK and JJ. Therefor a c-bet on the flop is important imo - as it might get JJ to fold (An UTG raise on a king high flop followed by a c-bet I would flod my JJ to - too likely i'm up against AK,AA,KK).

If your c-bet gets raised you can easily let your TT go. If you get called I would fire again on the turn if no A hits.

As played here you simply lack any information (which you would have got with a c-bet) so I'd fold it.

swede554 · #10 09-07-2007, 05:17 AM

I sometimes find myself in spots like these and always regret checking the flop because now we're kind of lost. I like leading the flop for 1/2 pot or so and if raised I fold (unless I have some sort of read) and if called I re-evaluate on the turn, but try to get to showdown cheap and if I can't do that I let it go.

As played I fold. Usually at best this is a flushdraw+overs, which you flipping against, or you are drawing to 2 outs. This is sometimes a pure bluff, but I think that's not the case often enough to make this call profitable.

edit: Just read through the rest of your replies and noticed you said that this occured pretty close the the money bubble, which imo increases the possibilty of this being a made hand that's beating TT, and he's just overbetting the pot because he's scared he'll get sucked out on close to the $.