Common situation vs loose passive

[ChulioBarth]

Villain is 78/24/1. No special reads.

Do I raise and call a 3-bet or do I should I just call down?

Poker Room skin
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2
4 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is Button with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, Hero calls.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero ?

[Burnsabre]

raise and call down I thik is pretty standard

[Absolution]

Raise because you know what it means when he 3-bets.

[jba]

raise and call down or call and raise river

[Oink]

- Against a draw that will c/f the river UI if you raise but 3-barrel if you call there is no reason to raise the turn.

- Against a combo hand that will call down a raise UI you can raise now or raise a safe river. If you raise a safe river you will save 1 bet whenever he donks the river. EDIT: When he sucks out that is

- Against a weak made hand with no redraws it doesnt matter if you raise the turn or river.


So what I am trying to say is that I raise a safe river and fold to a 3-bet

[rzk]

[ QUOTE ]
- Against a draw that will c/f the river UI if you raise but 3-barrel if you call there is no reason to raise the turn.

- Against a combo hand that will call down a raise UI you can raise now or raise a safe river. If you raise a safe river you will save 1 bet whenever he donks the river. EDIT: When he sucks out that is

- Against a weak made hand with no redraws it doesnt matter if you raise the turn or river.


So what I am trying to say is that I raise a safe river and fold to a 3-bet

[/ QUOTE ]

but if we don't raise the turn sometimes he will c/c river with a weak made hand and sometimes he will c/f a draw that didn't come. so i think we should raise the turn.

[Gurravasa]

I'm with oink here. A guy that loose can have any two here, straight, set, 2-pair, pair he could play the same. If we raise he'll probably fold the weaker part and 3-bet the strongest and call the rest. I think I call river to and bet if checked to. Raise/fold is an option, but I doubt he'll call many hands we beat, but if his WTSD is high a raise could be good.

[rzk]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm with oink here. A guy that loose can have any two here, straight, set, 2-pair, pair he could play the same. If we raise he'll probably fold the weaker part and 3-bet the strongest and call the rest. I think I call river to and bet if checked to. Raise/fold is an option, but I doubt he'll call many hands we beat, but if his WTSD is high a raise could be good.

[/ QUOTE ]

it seems you are not exactly with oink because you just want to call down. i think against "any two here" we are a big enough favorite to want to put in a raise somewhere. i haven't done any math, just a gut feeling.


but in any case, if we do indeed want to put in a raise,then i think it should be on the turn and not the river for the reasons in my previous post. i think a guy who has the stats he has most likely has a high WTSD and won't fold any made hand.

[thepizzlefosho]

I prefer to raise the river in these spots, but only if I can fold to a 3-bet (something I used to not be able to do).

I feel like his hand is a combo pair and straight draw often enough that we make more by waiting to the river, plus people who bet the river always pay off a raise with any pair.

[Tryptamean]

I like raising the turn. In addition to every combo draw/pair hand that pays to showdown, you also give him the opportunity to spew. Against a player with those stats who I don't know well, I am never taking a line that involves folding.