Flush on paired board 300BB deep facing river raise

Proofrock · #1 08-28-2007, 01:53 AM

I've been playing pretty laggy this session (30/18 or so). Villain has been playing straightforwardly at 26/16 over 250 hands or so. FWIW, 3-bets had been infrequent at this table, and I'm pretty sure this is the first time Villain had 3-bet.

Comments on all streets appreciated, since I'm not really crazy about how I played it.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.40/$0.80
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $106.30
UTG+1: $159.70
Hero: $264.25
Button: $265.70
SB: $316.40
BB: $160

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $2.8, Hero calls, Button raises to $12, 3 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($28, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $20, Hero calls.

Turn: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($68, 2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($68, 2 players)
Hero bets $42.4, Button raises to $125, Hero pukes and ...?

AggJedi · #2 08-28-2007, 02:01 AM

I kinda dislike preflop. Calling from OOP with a s/c isn't my idea of a good time. If you had a pair or something that has more equity against a big pair i'd like it a lot more.

I don't like check/calling the flop if you had the intention to check/call the turn. And I don't see why you would CR the turn and not the flop if you wanted to bluff here. (assuming you miss the turn).

Overall i'd prefer a CR or a lead on the flop. Or CC and lead the turn regardless of what hits. I just dislike cc/cc it's just too weak.

The way the hand was played this river is meh. He could have KK or AK. I don't think KK checks the turn nearly as often as AK. So i'd be more inclined to put him on AK. So i'm probably just going with the hand at this point.

Proofrock · #3 08-28-2007, 02:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I kinda dislike preflop. Calling from OOP with a s/c isn't my idea of a good time.

[/ QUOTE ]

100BB deep I agree. 325BB deep vs. a player who has been playing pretty straightforward and whose preflop 3bet narrows his range considerably, though, I'm quite comfortable playing the hand.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't like check/calling the flop if you had the intention to check/call the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think check-raising the flop is a reasonable play here if he's going to get passive with an overpair. What do you think, c/r to $75 and either call a shove or shove the turn?

[ QUOTE ]
And I don't see why you would CR the turn and not the flop if you wanted to bluff here. (assuming you miss the turn).

[/ QUOTE ]

I was planning to c/r the turn if I hit, but this was pretty much the worst turn imaginable for stacking an overpair. If the turn blanked I intended to c/c again, since I'm only a 3 to 1 dog, and if he bets the turn hard I'm guaranteed to get paid on the river.

Leading any turn is an option, though I'd have a harder time calling a sizable raise if I lead a turn brick. If I were to take this line I would check-raise an offsuit 8 instead of leading it, though.

[ QUOTE ]
The way the hand was played this river is meh. He could have KK or AK. I don't think KK checks the turn nearly as often as AK. So i'd be more inclined to put him on AK. So i'm probably just going with the hand at this point.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why would he raise the river with AK here (unless it was AcKc, in which case why wouldn't he bet the turn)?

And by "going with the hand" you mean calling, right?

AggJedi · #4 08-28-2007, 02:30 AM

My mistake about the stack sizes I read it wrong first time and thought we were up against ugt+1. Noticing the button's stack makes this call preflop a lot more favorable, still seems like you can put yourself in a tough situation post flop from OOP though.

If he has AK this is a reasonable value raise from villian, he could put you on an overpair before the K hit (obviously lower than KK that isn't a set). I really don't think he has AK of clubs here or he almost certainly would bet the turn if he's any decent at all.

Yes, by go with the hand I mean i'm calling. If you shove I don't think AK calls and only higher flushes/boats will get it in with you.

DawnToDusk · #5 08-28-2007, 02:54 AM

I'm sure you'll here this and will here it time and time again but why play this PF at all? It is a speculative hand and it looks like you could have a chance to win a big pot but.... You're out of position! You're implied odds aren't as good as you would like them to be because your vill will get to see what you do first and respond accordingly. He will make the most money from you and you will make the least just because of your position. Blah. Sorry. Didn't mean to be a nag. =) Onto the hand...

If you know your opponent is straight forward then we can possibly lay this down. I'd assume that our straightforward (correct me if I'm wrong) opponent won't be flush draws and with a big overpair (depending on how attached he is) will just call a bet after a flush came in with his overpair. This might be make some really specific generalizations about this straightforward player but at the same time they don't seem terrible. If we need to make some adjustments we can. So if thats the case then what hand are you expecting to beat on the river? AA? I don't think he is going to reraise TT+ here (if that is part of his PF 3bet range) after the K came out.

Proofrock · #6 08-28-2007, 03:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure you'll here this and will here it time and time again but why play this PF at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

Preflop is debatable, but we're deep enough and in my mind Villain's range is narrow enough (while mine is quite wide) that the necessary implied odds are there. Sure, I'd make more if I was in position, but that doesn't mean the hand is automatically unprofitable OOP.

[ QUOTE ]
So if thats the case then what hand are you expecting to beat on the river? AA? I don't think he is going to reraise TT+ here (if that is part of his PF 3bet range) after the K came out.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that's the thing -- I think he's representing exactly KK with his river raise. If a person represents exactly one hand (3 combos) that got there on the river to beat you, is it a fold because nothing else makes sense? Or, because there are so few combinations of that hand, is there a great enough likelihood that he's overplaying something else to make this a call?

DawnToDusk · #7 08-28-2007, 03:35 AM

Well you said hes straightforward. I think it is easy to say "Well there are only three remaming kings in the deck and there are only 3 combinations out of 1000+ straiting hands that are KK that beat me. There are a ton of other hands that I beat here." and fall into a costly trap. So I'm kind of asking myself what straightforward player is rasing here with a hand that you beat?

Your bet could (to the other player) easily mean I have a flush, a king, or a seven here. So if thats the case then why would he be raising with other hands that don't beat your range? You might see him do this with AA sometimes but then it really goes back on how he has seen you play. He has to think you will call with a worse hand a lot of the time for him to make that raise with AA.

So I'm under the impression he is representing KK with his river raise too and I get the impression he isn't overplaying a lot here either cuse you said he is so straightforward.

zxjaexz · #8 08-28-2007, 03:36 AM

yea u should puke the way u played it.. turn i would bet even if it does look scary cause he could easily have a higher club and draw out on the river on u. thats not good in a pot this big.. and i dont see him shoving with ak here. maybe a value raise in a smaller pot but this is big. so with his stats.. crying fold ?