WTF do I do here?

[drbk2]

A crappy $40/$80 game at the Borgata that turns pretty good when one of the top 5 worst players I have ever played with (this is saying ALOT) sits down along with another pretty bad semi regular and a super LAG who seems to have a good understanding of the game but chooses not to play well most of the time. The two main villains in this hand is the super LAG and the bad semi regular. The super LAG spews a lot preflop and the flop, but on the turn and river is pretty good at realizing when his hand is good or not and whether or not he can get people to fold. The bad semi regular just plays weird poker. Passively calling down or checking behind with obvious winners, sometimes value betting well, other times just spewing away, although rarely will he spew on turn and rivers.

Preflop: Horrible MP open limps. MP2 is super LAG and raises. Cutoff is the semibad regular, he posted and calls. SB calls, I call with J8o in the big blind, limper calls.

Flop: 8 8 7 rainbow. Checked to preflop raiser who bets. Cutoff calls, I call, limper calls.

Turn: 6. I donk, limper folds, MP2 raises, before MP2 can even get his full raise into the pot Cutoff is in the process of cutting out a 3 bet. My action?

Some comments so far:

Preflop: With the caliber of players in the hand and my pot odds, I think J8o is a pretty easy call.

Flop: I think check raising the flop is probably the correct play, but I was running super bad, plus I wasn't really getting dealt much so I probably looked like the tightest guy of all time this given night. This is why I elected to call instead of check raise, but that might be wrong.

Turn: I think no matter how I decided to play the flop I was going to have to call 2 more cold on the turn somehow anyway. So the spot remains the same I think.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

[ackid]

I would lead into flop and 3/bet a raise. Then donk turn/ call down if raised from lag.

Im folding preflop.

[lucid75]

Bad spot. C/r flop or lead/3bet flop like ackid said. As played, cutoff could have any reasonable hand here, all you can beat from him is like T8 or 98. If he rarely spews away on turns and rivers, do the math. Are you getting laid enough of a price to hit a J or pair the board and get paid?

[rafiki]

[ QUOTE ]
I would lead into flop and 3/bet a raise. Then donk turn/ call down if raised from lag.

Im folding preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

really folding preflop ? limper is surely calling, means we're more or less guaranteed 9 to 1 on our call. I can't fold that. We play well enough post flop to not go broke on a J.

[sharpie]

PF is fine with retards in the mix and weak hands against you. Check/raise the flop. As played calldown.

[ackid]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would lead into flop and 3/bet a raise. Then donk turn/ call down if raised from lag.

Im folding preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

really folding preflop ? limper is surely calling, means we're more or less guaranteed 9 to 1 on our call. I can't fold that. We play well enough post flop to not go broke on a J.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does this take into account reverse i/o we might be getting on our hand by say a better jack, making the odds to call lower? I maybe be totally wrong but this seems like a very boarderline call esp. oop.

[rafiki]

Ya that's my point. We understand io, we understand that 1 pair isn't going to be our winner here. And if/when it is, hopefully we're skilled enough to know by the turn.

It's a much more clear fold with J6. But J8 and the straight potential is too great to fold. And I don't find it particularly close to be honest. The question I'd have for you is what immediate odds do you require ? to call there ? Do you fold regardless ?

[rafiki]

I'm pretty sure the math is right here:

with J8, odds to

Flop an OE straight draw 4%
Flop 2 Pairs 2%
Flop a Straight 1%
Flop Trips or a Full 1%

and then we're going to have to account some for hitting the J. 9 to 1 seems pretty decent. I agree that much less isn't worth it.

[cowboy billy]

I'd call this too pre flop

flop is either a bet/3bet or a c/r but never a c/call

as played, call down

[ackid]

Ok, I see what your saying now. Wasnt really sure about the math but it makes sense now. Thanks for the input..