flop nut flush draw in position

[hamnegger]

Full Tilt Poker Game #3275844688: $2 + $0.25 Rebuy (24962960), Table 16 - 200/400 Ante 50 - No Limit Hold'em - 23:44:07 ET - 2007/08/16

9 handed

Seat 1: TeaHeadache (13,495) (bb)
Seat 5: TheEnd79 (8,575) (mp + 1)
Seat 8: hero (13,445) (button)
Seat 9: MrSMorgan (7,325) (sb)

MrSMorgan posts the small blind of 200
TeaHeadache posts the big blind of 400
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to hero [Ac 4c]

3 folds

TheEnd79 calls 400
1 fold

hero calls 400 (button)
MrSMorgan calls 200 (sb)
TeaHeadache checks

pot 2050

*** FLOP *** [Kc 8d Jc]
MrSMorgan checks
TeaHeadache checks
TheEnd79 bets 1,200

hero?

[hamnegger]

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t200/t400
(Ante: t50)
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t8575
hamnegger: t13445
SB: t7325
BB: t13495

Pre-flop: (4 players) hamnegger is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG calls t400 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t800)</font>, hamnegger calls t400 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t1200)</font>, SB calls t200 <font color="aaaaaa">(pot was t1600)</font>, BB checks.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (t1800, 4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">UTG bets t1200</font>.
HERO?

[Sir Pwn A Donk]

Well, he is betting 3/4 the pot, and you don't have pot odds and still have people left behind who might check raise (not all that likely since they are in the blinds and I doubt they hit a monster there). I personally fold here...

[donquay]

I'm torn in this situation...if I'm folding I might as well have folded preflop because I was playing for flush value...I know the flop's not ideal w/ kjx being there, but flopping the nut flush draw is as good as we could've hoped right?

if we call any club is obviously an out, but any ace might be an out as well...if we raise I don't think the raiser is folding ($2r tourney, typical villain shows strength and doesn't know how to fold after showing strength)

if we call and club comes on turn, can we really extract that many more chips from villain? I think only if he has 2 pr or better

eh, I don't like this situation and don't really know what I'd do...I'm interested in hearing what other people would do though

[illini43]

Raise preflop.

[Fiksdal]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is really essential OP

[levAA]

re-read hand history - hero is button - so i think a call with an utg limp is ok here.

as played i consider pushing, most of the time you have 12 outs as long as UTG hasn't played 88,KJ which gives you a 45% of winning the hand. with the added FE i think a push is a +EV move here.

[hamnegger]

i raised to 6k as a semibluff. 1. the blinds probably couldnt call (if they do its not terrible) and 2. that flop bet was either pretty weak or super strong considering that board (i was leaning toward weak) 3. i played the hand for its nut flush value if you think im folding here your nuts. the question was call or raise. 4. the better now has to decide if this is the hand he wants to bust on


result : all folded i took the pot.

[Tackleberry]

[ QUOTE ]
... if you think im folding here your nuts.

[/ QUOTE ]

Keep cool. Imho a fold would have been much better than a call here! Whích doesn´t mean a fold would have been good at all - just that a call would have been worst. Why? You can expect that both blinds fold and you´ll get a turnbet which you probably can´t call anymore.

Your semibluff-raise was nice - even more than a shove which pretty much would have revealed your cards.

=&gt; (big) raise &gt; shove &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; fold &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt ; call