Being leased a table for $1500 a month....

[Wesker1982]

I was wondering if anyone here with experience running or managing a table could help me out...

Recently I came across an opportunity to rent a table from a local bar for $1500. It is a 1-5 spread limit table with a 10% rake $5 max, I'll be dealing and running the game ,I get to keep tips + rake, but it will cost me $1500 a month. The thing is, I really have no idea if $1500 is reasonable. I don't know what kind of profit to expect from rake+tips, I don't want to end up making $2000 but paying $1500 to the bar owners. I know 1-5 spread limit isn't very common, so if it helps, there is rarely anyone betting less than $5, so its almost like a $5 fixed limit game.

I am estimating that at this point I could probably deal 20-25 hands an hour, maybe 30. Also, some nights are completely dead with no games at all, while other nights are packed,I would say there are good games on average about 3 times a week (I assume the bar owners took this into consideration when giving a price?...).

I really want to do this, at this point it looks like a lot better way to build a bankroll vs grinding $2/4 tables, but I don't want to end up not making much or losing money. Its probably tough for anyone to estimate how much profit I could expect, but any advice from someone with experience is appreciated. Thanks! [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

[youtalkfunny]

If you only dropped $50/hour (an estimate so low as to be silly to consider), you'd cover your nut after 30 hours.

I don't know this bar, so I don't know if the game runs for 30 hours each month. I hope that you know the answer to this question already.

But if it runs for 30 hours each week, you've got a no-brainer on your hands.

BTW, if I were you, I'd hire at least one other dealer. A one-man show leads to brain fatigue--I don't mean drowsiness, I mean Huge, Stinking Brain Farts, beyond the scope of what you feel would be possible. When I started dealing, I never imagined that I would spread a flop while dealing stud, or deal the cards counter-clockwise around the table...but I did all that and more. Brain fatigue leads to errors, and errors lead to a whole host of problems that you don't want (correcting errors slows down the rake; incompetent-looking dealers run off players; etc).

If it were me, I'd hire two dealers for minimum wage plus tokes. I'd host/prop the game, and spend that time supervising.

BTW, is this deal legal? What state is this? If the operation is illegal, then please disregard any advice tendered here.

[Wesker1982]

Haha, as far as I know, its legal. The bar has been running the table for about 4 years, in Montana. I figured if it was illegal, it would be the owner of the gaming license responsibility.

If I understand correctly, I should have no problem raking $50/ hour? The reason I planned on dealing all myself is because I figured it would be easier to cover the $1500 if I got tokes.

I am not sure how easy it will be to get 30 hours a week (population is 10k). Before the previous table manager left, I estimate they got 5-7 hour games about 3 times a week, but this was mostly due to the fact they only ran a game 3 times a week. But if I can in fact run it for at least 30 hours a week, its obviously a good idea?

Also, any other tips regarding the management of a game would be appreciated (attracting people, promotions,etc.), since I have obviously never managed a game. Thanks!

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
I should have no problem raking $50/ hour?

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, let's be super-conservative. Let's guess that you (or the flunky you hire) can get out 25 hands per hour. Let's further assume that you almost never drop $5 in a single hand. If you only drop $2/hand, on average, that's $50/hour.

I'm going out on a limb to say that those numbers are horribly unrealistic. You should have many, many hands where you drop the full $5. If you can get your average to $3/hand, that's $75/hour for you.

If you have any skill at all when it comes to keeping the game moving and not making errors (errors are time consuming, and time is money in this business), I can't imagine you dropping less than $80-100/hour in a full game.

But it would be prudent to take a "worst case scenario" approach. I think $50/hour is plenty conservative enough for our purposes.

If your table runs three nights per week, five hours per night (again, that sounds like the rock bottom bare minimum)...

3 * 5 * $50 = $750/week.

(how many weeks in a month? 52/12=4.33)

$750 * 4.33 = about $3250/month.

That number goes up if you can drop more than $2/hand, and get out more than 25 hands/hour, and can get people to play for more than 15 hours/week. In my estimation, a disastrous month should gross $3250.

Are deals like this common up there? I could go for something like this. Do people brave the arctic winters to go to the bar and play poker?

[youtalkfunny]

Before you get too excited, I should point out that I have no idea what a poker table actually drops. I'm pulling guesses out of my butt in these posts.

[youtalkfunny]

Any other expenses besides the $1500 fee? Are you expected to comp drinks, and pay for them out of the drop? Does the $1500 get you use of cards and chips?

[nobazn]

Is it possible for you to try out the table for a week? as a testing the waters kind a thing.

[youtalkfunny]

One last thought, before I go sleep:

I wouldn't dream of entering into a deal like this without an attorney by my side. I'd want to know my exposure to things like liability, gaming compliance, etc.

[youtalkfunny]

[ QUOTE ]
Is it possible for you to try out the table for a week? as a testing the waters kind a thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure, he can buy a rack of chips, and sit down and play for a few hours! I hope he's already done that a few times.

[RR]

[ QUOTE ]
Before you get too excited, I should point out that I have no idea what a poker table actually drops. I'm pulling guesses out of my butt in these posts.

[/ QUOTE ]

The slowest game should drop over $50/hr. The 1-5 stud at the Stratosphere in 1999 dropped $56/hr.