Is it true....

[IrOnLaW]

that good works mean nothing for you to go to heaven..... You have to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior to get into heaven, otherwise your hell bound.....

[Bill Haywood]

Mods,

Would it be possible to set up a separate board, "IronLaw asks questions?"

[IrOnLaW]

Sorry about that, just had a lot on my mind, I apologize.....

[Lestat]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry about that, just had a lot on my mind, I apologize.....

[/ QUOTE ]

Just use one post. These questions can all be lumped under the heading: "Logical inconsistencies of religious beliefs".

[Hopey]

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that good works mean nothing for you to go to heaven..... You have to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior to get into heaven, otherwise your hell bound.....

[/ QUOTE ]

It really depends on who you ask. Many of the Protestants on this board believe that Gandhi is roasting in hell right now. However, just as many of them don't wish to believe such a thing is possible.

For the atheists, your question is moot.

[NotReady]

[ QUOTE ]

that good works mean nothing for you to go to heaven..... You have to accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior to get into heaven, otherwise your hell bound.....


[/ QUOTE ]

Salvation is by grace, not works. Protestants believe, however, that if you don't manifest some evidence of having received grace then you probably haven't. So works are evidence of genuine faith, but don't earn you any brownie points for salvation.

I feel pretty sure Phil is all set to jump on this so let me get out of his way while he again demonstrates his unfathomable ignorance.

[Bill Haywood]

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Salvation is by grace, not works.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not all Protestants are Calvinists, not by a long shot.

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Phil... demonstrates his unfathomable ignorance.

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Your arrogance is not unfathomable, but it's still thousands of fathoms deep.

[Phil153]

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Salvation is by grace, not works. Protestants believe, however, that if you don't manifest some evidence of having received grace then you probably haven't. So works are evidence of genuine faith, but don't earn you any brownie points for salvation.

[/ QUOTE ]
The protestant take appears significantly more consistent with an honest reading of the bible but less consistent with basic justice and reason. The bible pretty clearly says on multiple occasions that you need to believe in Jesus, i.e.:

John 3:18 "He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

There are heaps more. Unless you believe that's a flat out fabrication (which the Catholics don't),there's not much room for interpretation here. The Catholics like to equivocate and soothsay and fabricate their own interpretations to make Catholicism more palatable, but the bible is pretty plain on this point. Believe in and accept Jesus as your savior, or you will be condemned.

[ QUOTE ]
I feel pretty sure Phil is all set to jump on this so let me get out of his way while he again demonstrates his unfathomable ignorance.

[/ QUOTE ]
I only jump on the obvious and insulting falsehoods - like the claim that no part of the bible has been proven false, when some parts clearly have. And I'm happy to gang up on the Catholics with you.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
The protestant take appears significantly more consistent with an honest reading of the bible but less consistent with basic justice and reason. The bible pretty clearly says on multiple occasions that you need to believe in Jesus, i.e.:

John 3:18 "He that believeth on Him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God."

There are heaps more. Unless you believe that's a flat out fabrication (which the Catholics don't),there's not much room for interpretation here. The Catholics like to equivocate and soothsay and fabricate their own interpretations to make Catholicism more palatable, but the bible is pretty plain on this point. Believe in and accept Jesus as your savior, or you will be condemned.


[/ QUOTE ]

in the interests of being fair and balanced:

[ QUOTE ]
Luke 6:46-49 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
[NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

The Wise and Foolish Builders
46"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? 47I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice. 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete."

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Matthew 7:21-23 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
[NIV at IBS] [International Bible Society] [NIV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

[/ QUOTE ]

[Phil153]

PLO - all that shows is that belief in Jesus alone is not enough.

It doesn't at all take away from the army of quotes which state salvation will not happen without specifically accepting Jesus as your savior.