One of the biggest WTF hands ever for me

Weir · #1 08-10-2007, 06:20 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) pokerhand.org hand converter

Button ($659.80)
SB ($134)
BB ($272)
UTG ($237.05)
Hero ($200)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $8, Button calls $8, 2 folds.

Flop: ($19) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $12, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($43) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $24, Hero raises to $100, Button calls $76.

River: ($243) 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $80, Hero calls $80 (All-In).

Final Pot: $403

Opponent is the worst player ever.........67/30.

he likes to make huge bluffs and bet with air all of the time.

cbetting is useless as he folds exactly 0 percent of the time, so i quit cbetting long ago b/c it doesn't define anything and just gives away my hand now ........for example he would just call the cbet and check/fold the turn or raise if he improved.

my turn raise is obviously to get him to push......the way he played......if you left enough behind like here he would bluff at it. obv he calls and a 4th spade comes.

i don't really know what the hell this is or what my question is.

fees · #2 08-10-2007, 06:21 AM

u prob wanna lead the flop and b/f the turn

ikestoys · #3 08-10-2007, 06:23 AM

a;kshdfalkewjfhaw;ksjfhvaw'fhi

bet
the
flop

Weir · #4 08-10-2007, 06:24 AM

[ QUOTE ]
u prob wanna lead the flop and b/f the turn

[/ QUOTE ]
why don't i just open fold the flop and donate money to special needs children instead?

Symbolic · #5 08-10-2007, 06:31 AM

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cbetting is useless as he folds exactly 0 percent of the time

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When we have a straight, thats a good thing! Please cbet flop. We have a strong hand and want money in the pot now. We very likely have the best hand here but there are many scary turn cards (ie. any [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]). If I check here it's most definately to check raise. If you have a strong read that he will bet if you check, then I guess it's ok to do that. I would only not lead this flop if I was like 85%+ sure he would bet. But sorry, I think check-calling is horrible here, I really don't know what you are trying to accomplish by that.

0evg0 · #6 08-10-2007, 06:37 AM

bet flop, get all the money in if possible

if he just calls

bet turn, get all the money in if possible

Weir · #7 08-10-2007, 06:38 AM

i had a very very very strong read on exactly what he does.

he makes gigantic bluffs on the turn and river if you show weakness, and he shuts down very fast on the turn if you show strength.

say i check/raise the flop.........he calls and check/folds turn..........i knew if i check/call and a non spade comes on the turn he will bet again, and play a gigantic pot with almost anything.

does this make sense?

the thing is.......i don't see how to make money off of a guy like this unless you slowplay the flop.

Symbolic · #8 08-10-2007, 06:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i had a very very very strong read on exactly what he does.

he makes gigantic bluffs on the turn and river if you show weakness, and he shuts down very fast on the turn if you show strength.

say i check/raise the flop.........he calls and check/folds turn..........i knew if i check/call and a non spade comes on the turn he will bet again, and play a gigantic pot with almost anything.

does this make sense?

the thing is.......i don't see how to make money off of a guy like this unless you slowplay the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I see you're what saying. Given your read it's often a good idea to show weakness to induce a turn bluff from him. However this is one of the worst boards for this move since there are so many bad turn cards for you. Maybe a better opportunity for this line would be AJ on on AT6r flop, or something like that. Ok so given you're read I don't hate it as much as I did at first, I still think it's maybe not the best time for it though. Perhaps you could try betting flop pot size then check-raising turn.

Shizzle12345 · #9 08-10-2007, 07:05 AM

I think his point was, that this is a villain that doesnt get money in unless hes the one making dumb bluffs.. So betting doesnt really do much here right? But i kinda agree with symbolic.

Also did you post this cos you lost or won it?

SpecT · #10 08-10-2007, 07:22 AM

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Perhaps you could try betting flop pot size then check-raising turn.

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bingo bango.

u say villain doesnt fold to cbets, then bluffs the turn wen shown weakness. soo, uhh, use the cbet flop then show turn weakness line.