party 10/20. Elindauer value/bluff river raise

[Oink]

Villain is fairly new. Seems at bit on the bad LAG side. I would guess something like 35/17 stats and a bit difficult to read.

This hand happende 5-10 hands before the hand in question


Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $10/$20
5 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (5 players) Hero is Button with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB caps</font>, Hero calls, SB calls.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (12SB, 3 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, BB folds.

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8.5BB, 2 players)
SB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, SB calls.

River: K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (10.5BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Results:
Final pot: 14.5BB
SB doesn't show K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]



Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $10/$20
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is Button with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">Hero raises..??</font>


Results:


The raise was kind of an Elindauer raise that Yourface has introduced me to. Because I think calling is sometimes, if not always, correct on the river I figured what the hell and popped it.

Spew?

[sebastien]

if you raise here it s i suppose you think he raise with air and you want to fold is hand by raise river?
i dont really like i don t think he have air so many times and i don t see player bet fold river some paire but don t play 10/20.
when i see the size of the pot i dont think is it profitable.

[yourface]

hand 1 looks like a pure value raise. what better hands are folding? ed: just noticed this was your example hand.

hand 2 looks like a pure bluff. were you really considering calling with queen high?

[Oink]

[ QUOTE ]
hand 2 looks like a pure bluff. were you really considering calling with queen high?

[/ QUOTE ]

ya. I am pretty sure he doesnt have a J or a T and that river is a brick which leaves busted draws of which I beat a lot. With K high I call it 100% (If not raise it [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img])

[thepizzlefosho]

you know what they say:

if it looks like spew, it feels like spew, and sounds like spew....

[sharpie]

I play the second one like that alot, and always get told it's spew when I post it.

[yourface]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hand 2 looks like a pure bluff. were you really considering calling with queen high?

[/ QUOTE ]

ya. I am pretty sure he doesnt have a J or a T and that river is a brick which leaves busted draws of which I beat a lot. With K high I call it 100% (If not raise it [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img])

[/ QUOTE ]

I've lost to a better K high when I've been trying to snap off bluffs with one at least twice in the last few days. someone (clarkmeister?) once said that if you're considering calling with K high you should raise instead. I think I should try that out

[Robin Foolz]

hand2: looks like he's value betting against your A-hi hands with a small pp or A2c, so calling this with Q-hi is pretty bad.

since he's a bad lag, i doubt he'll fold any pair here to your raise. therefore, raising accomplishes nothing since you'll just fold out air or get called by a better hand.

but if you have a read here, then i guess go for it.

[Apanage]

I think it is a good play if you already planned to call the river.Then you get 6.25:1 on that he folds to the raise with a better hand.And I can see a lot of better hands that folds.
Personally I don´t like a call on the river since I should expect a guy with his stats to make a move before river with a no showdown value hand.
So I think that a raise is a better play.Because he may think that his showdown vlue isn´t enough to call a raise.
But of course this play is very read dependant.
If he has the intention to bet/fold then it is a great example of why I hate bet/fold lines oop on river against all except loose/passives.It is a very exploitable line.

[Redeye]

What about waiting for the turn in hand 1? We have position with a pretty good hand, if he's a LAG, there is a high probability that he'll lead the turn as well. A 5,6, T, or J may freze up villian, but there are plenty of cards he may still fire the turn with figuring you for a draw or missed overs. I think I normally raise the flop here too, just trying to consider another line.