I'm a bad poker player...

[Nick D]

No doubt you may all know that already due to the hand posts I've made thus far on the forum. I hate to admit it, but I thought I'd naturally be a good player, and I'm losing money. Granted, I'm not losing it too quickly or anything, but I'm losing it either way. Let me give you a little info:

I'm down about 43 BB over the last month/month 1/2.. I started up about 60 BB, so I've essentially lost 100 BB somewhere in the last month. I'm not hemorrhaging money, but it's going somewhere! I've lost my fair share of suck outs to LAGs who catch a 2-4 outter on the river, which hasn't caused me to consciously tilt or anything, but they have been large pots I think I should win more often than not.

I play .25/.50 limit on Full-Tilt. I am about an 18/9/2 over a hand history of 5,783 hands. I realize this is not enough hands and that people will tell me to play probably 25,000 more before they can tell me anything, but that is not the point of this post.

My main question is, are there any tips you have that I can use to improve my game. I've read SSHE and HEPFAP. I've read the latter twice and am about 1/3 of the way through the former book my second time through. I've posted a few hands here, but I really have no idea which hands are of significance and which ones I should just not waste anyones' time with. I read posts on here about everyday. I have poker tracker and have analyzed my numbers using the "how to use poker tracker" article and they all seem fairly good. Please, be as specific as you would like, or just general things (although I've read quite a few general concepts, so more specific would be appreciated).

Thanks for your help everyone.

Nick

[GLKST526]

People much more experienced then I can tell you this with a little more authority, but I believe that a swing like that is not uncommon even to very good players. There are threads on this board that speak about 300 and 600BB downswings. I myself had a bad one of about 250BB downswing playing 1/2 a couple of years ago when I played a little more regularly. From that, I learned that one of my biggest leaks was tilt control. Oops

A problem I had when I started was that when I read through those books, I thought awesome, I've read TOP, SSHE, HEPFAP, etc. so I understand and can apply these concepts perfectly, and that's just not the case. I don't know if this is a problem for you, but don't just read through them, try and understand why the concepts are accurate and situations in which you can apply them successfully.

Another thing you can try is to go through your hand histories and analyze your own play. See if maybe you missed a bet with a big hand, or if there was a marginal hand that perhaps you could have played better. Maybe you'll realize that you are making solid bets and the cards are just running against you temporarily.

Finally, keep hanging out here. Just looking through the hands that are posted, seeing how people reason out each decision, what factors they consider, I know that I've learned a lot since I started visiting little more regularly a month or so ago. Try signing up to have someone do a review of one of your sessions, having someone objective look at your plays can be a great help.

It's hard not to get down on ourselves sometimes, especially when things aren't going well, but you clearly want to do better, and are willing to put in the effort, so just keep your chin up and it will get better

[MrWookie]

If you're posting this for a quick fix, it's not going to happen. Even if we could write down a list of 10 simple steps to make you as good as Schneids, and you followed them to the letter, there's still a chance you could still lose money for the next 10k hands. Getting good at poker requires hard work and patience. If you're not willing to keep playing through a 100 BB downswing, which is small, btw, poker is probably not your game. That said, here are a couple things:

1. Respond to more hands. A lot more hands. Don't just pick the easy ones, either. The less you think you know the answer, the more inclined you should be to try and piece together something to answer. Explain yourself as much as possible.

2. Learn how to do equity calculations and Bayesian analysis to improve your hand reading and fundamental understanding of the game.

3. Sign up for session reviews.

Edit: 4. Here's a universal law for all poker players: tilt always affects you more than you think it does. Lots of people say, "Oh yeah, I don't really tilt." Bull-[censored]. Just because you're not screaming at your monitor and raising every hand doesn't mean you're not on tilt.

[CrMenace]

Nick,

100BB downswing is painful but also happens to everyone. Go look for the July graphs thread. You'll see that even many of the winning poker players have downswings of 50-100BB on their graph.

That said, you've probably got a long way to go to becomming a really good poker player. Hell, I've read the cover off of my SSHE, post and grunch regularly here, do the session reviews, and I still feel like I have a long way to go.

Just keep it up. I'm a true believer that reading + grunching + session reviews = winning poker over the long haul.

[Riku]

Just keep posting and commenting others' hands. Don't look what other people have said before you've made up your mind on how you would play the hand and why.

100BB down is very normal and very common. Happens aaaall the time. You can even loose 50BB in one session! Sometimes you just get beat time after time even if you make the right play. Just concentrate on making right plays and the money will take care of itself.

[Buzz-cp]

I think you are already on the right track by posting hands, as long as you are considering how to make corrections on your play, based on the input you receive.

It is really hard to say "Do X" or "Do Y" without watching you play, but here are some general suggestions.

* learn how to use the search function (if you don't know already) to search things like specific hands or various topics like hand-reading.
* there are some great links at the bottom of the FAQ worth reading a couple times--oldies but goodies.
* get AIM, if you don't have it and search for the AIM names threads--there are many floating around. AIM is good for sweating, which could really improve your play.
* continue to post hands you have questions about (2/day max) and take the criticism to heart.
* grunch hands (i.e. respond to a hand post before looking at other responses). I did this for about 500 hands and it helped me a lot +post count [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
* work on table selection if you haven't done so (the front page is filled with lots of juicy stuff from AussieBattler).
* Review your own hands by going through them in PT
* join the review session if you haven't already.
* keep asking questions

Cheers,
Buzz

[JJack]

Yee this forum is great help to improve and understad game.
I for example now play only 3-4 table session and write during game all hands im not sure i play correctly. When my notes paper is full i just finish playing and look at all hands i have wrote and prepere them to post it here [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

It takes some time but from this month i have learned much (also during this time SSHE open my eyes)
When u play try use conncept from this book and then post those hands.

[Landonfan]

I was tempted to post the Grimstarr graph.

Mr. Wookie (or anyone that knows), can you explain a Bayesian analysis? I've never heard of this.

[Nick D]

Excellent. Thanks for the pep-talk guys. Just a few quick responses:
GLKST526: Thanks for the encouragement. I can assure you that I do more than just read the books and think, "Ok, now I can win." That being said, it's hard to absorb all the material the first time through.

MrWookie: I am not looking for a quick fix. I realize that poker is a game of discipline and that it takes time to learn. I also realize that a 100BB downswing is nothing to be too sad about. I am only worried that because I am relatively new to the game, it is because I am making mistakes rather than playing well against a bad run of cards. Also, I am not familiar with Bayesian analysis. Could you expand on it?

CrMenace, Riku, Buzz-cp: I know what Grunching is and have tried to do it more often than reading other peoples' posts first. Thanks for the tip, though.

Buzz-cp: Great tips, thanks.. pretty much what I was looking for.

To All: I am not just giving up and wallowing in my own self pity for being down 100BB. I am only here to air out my dirty laundry...to see if there is any way I can analyze my play in the short term to see if I'm making more mistakes than correct decisions in this downswing. Obviously a downswing will happen, but if it is a downswing that could have been prevented or minimized due to better decision-making, then I'd like to know. Thanks for the tips and encouragement.
Nick

[bennyhana]

dude, check it out, poker ain't easy. it takes a lot of time and commitment. you have to paly a ton of hands to get the table experience to go =with the bookwork you have done. admitting you suck is a step in the right direction, now take the time to not suck and we will all be happy.

one of the best things i ever did to get really better was to play some HU. I played a session with wook and we commented on every hand. I learned more forom that poker experience than any book, or hand post.

hang around a while, try and post good advice. if there is something you aren't sure about, ask.

if a dumb redneck like me can win, anybody can. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]