Full Tilt 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Q8o blind defense

Gipper · #1 08-07-2007, 08:14 PM

I've played less than 25 hands with villian. He hasn't done anything notable.

Full Tilt 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Gipper is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, CO raises, 2 folds, Gipper calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Gipper checks, CO bets, Gipper raises, CO calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Gipper bets, CO raises, Gipper ?

I'm guessing villians range is about A6, Q5s+, QTo+, so I feel I'm still ahead against his range. Do you reraise or call down? I'm leaning towards calling down, because I want to maximize my value from his top pair hands while minimizing the pain from A6. Is this standard or too passive?

blackasthma · #2 08-07-2007, 08:22 PM

You flopped a very strong hand and made a good play, but that turn card is horrible. All you can do here is call.

Allday Everyday · #3 08-07-2007, 08:41 PM

I think your preflop can be okay depending on the stealer's range.

I think the flop aggression is good.

It's not a good turn card but I think it's an easy value bet. When raised, I think you should just call down UI.

Ricks · #4 08-07-2007, 10:56 PM

Against that range defending is probably fine. Raising Q5s from the CO is probably ambitious. His ATS% would be the most helpful stat to determine your defending range.

I agree with the other posters about the hand. It is possible that Villain has a lone Queen but there are too many times that he has a stronger hand for you to do anything but call.

milesdyson · #5 08-08-2007, 01:04 AM

dunno why you expect him to raise you w/ Qx no kicker (Q5s/Q7s) or even QTo really. at least in shorthanded games the turn wait is reserved for the strongest hands, whereas QT/QJ type hands typically get their bets in on the flop.

either way w/ your (overloose imo) range it's a calldown.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

2,860 games 0.005 secs 572,000 games/sec

Board: 6s 8h Qs 6d
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 57.692% 55.59% 02.10% 1590 60.00 { Qd8s }
Hand 1: 42.308% 40.21% 02.10% 1150 60.00 { KK+, 88, 66, AQs, A6s, KQs, K6s, Q5s+, AQo, A6o, KQo, QTo+ }

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goofball · #6 08-08-2007, 01:08 AM

raise

Gipper · #7 08-08-2007, 09:52 AM

Full Tilt 3/6 Hold'em (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Gipper is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
4 folds, CO raises, 2 folds, Gipper calls.

Flop: (4.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Gipper checks, CO bets, Gipper raises, CO calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
Gipper bets, CO raises, Gipper calls.

River: (8.25 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Gipper checks, CO bets, Gipper calls.

Final Pot: 10.25 BB

Results in white below: 
Gipper has Qd 8s (two pair, queens and eights).
UTG doesn't show.
CO has As Qc (two pair, queens and sixes).
Outcome: Gipper wins 10.25 BB. 

Thanks for the replies. Miles, what kind of range would you assign a random "normal" player here? I may have been too caught up in focusing on pre-flop stealing hands and didn't pay enough attention to how the flop action should have affected my estimate of his range.

HoneyBadger · #8 08-08-2007, 10:25 AM

grunch

I like the line. I think you should 3-bet the turn because that's what this whole line is about. Your flop check-raise does two things: it gives you immediate value, and it provides some deception as this is often played the same way with a draw, such as a flush draw. Therefore, there is a distinct possibility he thinks we are drawing and is raising a marginal hand for a free-showdown. We have a strong two-pair hand in a blind steal situation, and I think we should take it one level further; so 3 bet.

(Good to see I was right. I didn't see the results before I made this post, so it's not biased.)

milesdyson · #9 08-08-2007, 02:12 PM

"Miles, what kind of range would you assign a random "normal" player here?"

better hands: AA KK QQ 88 66 A6 K6s 76s
worse hands: AQ KQ QJ QT

and then i'd throw some other stuff in to account for the downie turn raise factor... like AK.