Go Ahead, I can take the pain...

[Nick D]

Villian is a 16/7.5/2/202
I thought he may just be trying to buy the blinds, so I played the hand (a travesty) this way. Thanks for the negative feedback (which is needed).

Full Tilt 0.25/0.5 Hold'em (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: (4.20 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 4.20 BB

[Aaron W.]

You think a player with 7.5 PFR is trying to steal the blinds? If so, then 3-bet preflop.

As played, bet the turn and consider betting the river if you don't think he'll call with AK.

[bravos1]

If you raise the flop here HU, you got to fire another one on the turn.

[detruncate]

What's with all the angst? This isn't that bad. Once upon a time lots of 2p2ers played ~18/8 or less and still managed to steal pretty liberally from the SB.

Pf is a raise or call blind v blind. Folding would be silly. If you just call, it's so you can raise these sorts of flops. Gutshot, 2 overs, bdnfd. Pretty decent spot. But you absolutely have to bet the turn. Overcards will call almost always after you raise. We need to either push them out or extract another bet while we're ahead. We also put pressure on better aces to find a fold. They probably won't, but you never know.

Decision comes on the river when you have to decide whether to fire a final barrel. Pot will be 6+ bb at that point so it might well be worth a shot. It'd depend on what sort of range I'd put this Villain on after he calls the turn + how showdown bound he seems to be in general.

[Xhad]

There are a lot of ways to go with this. yes, players like this will steal from the SB and they often will have no clue how to continue once you play back at them. That said I'm probably just 3betting preflop, but like everyone else I think your pf/flop line dictates betting the turn. You might talk him into folding a pair or king high (not that he'd be wrong to fold Khigh but that's better than letting him catch a river)

[OrigamiSensei]

In the days when I was playing 17/7 and 18/8 poker I was quite liable to steal in this spot.

I think the turn check/bet decision is fairly close. I'm finding a lot of players these days who won't fold to two barrels, not because they're calling stations but because they are determined not to get run over in today's more aggressive games. I make that distinction because the mindset of the two are pretty different.

That being said, I think that if we don't improve we'd like to get to showdown for exactly one big bet if we can. That big bet can be apportioned as a bet on the turn or a call on the river. I prefer the bet on the turn because the queen is actually a pretty bad card for us. If villain did hit a queen he won't be able to resist the temptation to check-raise and we can be done with the hand. If villain is holding an ace nothing changed, but the concern is reverse domination from the raggedy flop. However, again, a logical line for villain is to let us hang ourselves with the blind defense flop raise/turn lead line and then pop us with the check-raise. The other benefit of the turn bet is that the queen could be a scary card for him. Because the pre-flop raise was simply called instead of 3-bet that makes the queen a more likely card to hit our hand range in a blind defense. This applies a fair amount of pressure to 88-66 (33 of course has the OESD and won't fold) and to a lesser extent JJ-99, and it applies pressure to bare aces and kings. I think the higher the pocket pair in that range the more likely it is he'll call on a sliding scale and a king will probably jump off here as well (rightly so). Hard to say what a good ace will do. So I guess I'm advocating bet/fold specifically.

After it's all said and done, though, I don't think OP's line is kitten slaughter - just that a turn bet is somewhat better.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
That being said, I think that if we don't improve we'd like to get to showdown for exactly one big bet if we can. That big bet can be apportioned as a bet on the turn or a call on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Checking behind and calling a river bet UI is terrible -- significantly worse than a turn bet. The stats of this player suggest that he's not the type to take a wild stab at the pot on the river.

[JerBear77]

Once you raise the flop you have to bet the turn, u gave up on your hand already. The flop raise is "ok" as this flop shouldn't help the villian's range much. You certainly can represent the Q here so u have to bet the turn.

[Buzz-cp]

[ QUOTE ]
If you raise the flop here HU, you got to fire another one on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

agreed

[bennyhana]

3 bet pre or call.
love the flop raise.
hate the turn.
hate the river more.

Edit: Nick, what were your thoughts during this hand? On every decision? Tell us why you called preflop, raised the flop and checked both later streets.