4/180 - Top pair, medium kicker w/ akward stack

[MNoller]

About 30 people left, been at this table for a while. MP1 had been limping a lot, but no one had punished him for it yet. CO's been calling raises constantly, so I don't think he has to have much here. Button hasn't been at the table very long.

In retrospect, I don't think I like my pre-flop raise size that much. At the time, I was thinking that it would give me good FE and produce an okay-sized pot provided not too many people called. So of course, enough people called to only leave me a pot-sized bet left. What's my best line here?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero (t10868)
CO (t16555)
Button (t18725)
SB (t3390)
BB (t11454)
UTG (t3230)
UTG+1 (t8845)
MP1 (t23923)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with T, A.
2 folds, MP1 calls t400, Hero raises to t2000, CO calls t2000, Button calls t2000, 2 folds, MP1 calls t1600.

Flop: (t8175) A, 5, 8 (4 players)</font>
MP1 checks, Hero ?

[erocplayer]

I think the only hands you have to worry about are AJ, AQ, 55, and 88. I'd imagine that the CO, Button, or MP1 would've R/R'd or shoved AI w/ AK or AA.

I think that you need to shove here. I don't think that you really want a call, but I think you're likely ahead of the opponent's ranges and need to take the pot while it's yours.

-eroc

[woohoo88]

PF ~1600 should accomplish the same as 2000.

As played, a flop shove looks fine.

[illini43]

[ QUOTE ]
PF ~1600 should accomplish the same as 2000.

As played, a flop shove looks fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with shoving the flop is that only better hands call and worse hands fold. Pushing here will likely get all weaker aces to fold and anything that beats us will likely call.

Personally, I fold this preflop. ATo in MP with a limper puts you in a tough situation postflop where you never know if you are ahead or behind.

I'm not sure if you can bet/fold this flop with your chip stack, and check/folding seems too weak.

[MNoller]

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with shoving the flop is that only better hands call and worse hands fold. Pushing here will likely get all weaker aces to fold and anything that beats us will likely call.

Personally, I fold this preflop. ATo in MP with a limper puts you in a tough situation postflop where you never know if you are ahead or behind.

I'm not sure if you can bet/fold this flop with your chip stack, and check/folding seems too weak.

[/ QUOTE ]Thanks for this post. You pretty much summed up everything that made me vomit on this hand. With only a pot-sized bet left, there's pretty much no way I'm getting away from this, because if I bet I'm committed and I hate c/f with top pair.
I don't mind just taking the pot down and doubling my stack, but if I get called I'm probably not good. Does A9 ever call? Does anyone ever have A9 here?

Folding never even crossed my mind during the hand, but now it's looking better. Still, with MP limping a lot, I have to rank to have the best hand pre-flop, and folding just to avoid a crappy situation seems scared/weak. Where is the line between passing up what seems like a mildly +EV pre-flop situation so as to not get caught in a lousy post-flop spot?

I just wasn't prepared for the situation I ended up in, and that's my fault for not planning ahead. I thought shove was the only reasonable play, so I did it. I got called by 55 and runner-runnered sevens for a higher full house and ended up finishing in 3rd. 50-1 suckout ftw.

[woohoo88]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
PF ~1600 should accomplish the same as 2000.

As played, a flop shove looks fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem with shoving the flop is that only better hands call and worse hands fold. Pushing here will likely get all weaker aces to fold and anything that beats us will likely call.

Personally, I fold this preflop. ATo in MP with a limper puts you in a tough situation postflop where you never know if you are ahead or behind.

I'm not sure if you can bet/fold this flop with your chip stack, and check/folding seems too weak.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're generally not going to get any weaker aces to fold. That said, I suppose even 4-way this is a WA/WB situation. The more I think about it the more I don't mind giving a free card. If the board were any less dry there's no way I'm not shoving.

I agree with pf being marginal (and marginally bad with the raise size).

[erocplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The problem with shoving the flop is that only better hands call and worse hands fold. Pushing here will likely get all weaker aces to fold and anything that beats us will likely call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is quite true, but I don't think that you can fold this hand if someone puts him in (AJ+ or a set), and you don't want to let a smaller A catch up.
I think if you're beat, you're going broke NMW so just get it in there before any inferior hand becomes the superior hand.

Is this bad logic?

-eroc