What the heck

[Jdanz]

I don't buy AC.

Well, i dunno, that might not be entirely true, and i'm not really sure what not buying it even means, so i'll go a little further.

proponents of AC say that government is a net loss, many of these people go so far as to say that there is no value gained by government in the first place (not just less gained then that which is lost via inefficency). I'd like to hear some thoughts from AC people, and i'll be happy to provide what i believe are counter arguments in terms of how government can and does create value.

In return i would like to hear from AC people, how property rights are in fact derived.

Second i would like to know if AC ever existed in the pre-modern past (i'm of the thought that it did) and what the development of states from a previous AC past has to say about people desire for states, or inability to defend themseleves from states. Why do you think states original arrisal would be different then a new state genisis in the vacuum created if we somehow managed to creat AC here and now.

Post-note: I've heard arguments that private property is created by mixing labor with unowned resources. I find this to be flawed. At what point does a stolen resource become legitamate? how many generations? how much labor must be combined with the resource, if i scatter seeds over a field is that the same as fencing it, or as plowing it?

Essentially tell me what makes private property so "real" and tangible as it seems in AC theory.

In my view actual claim over (legal as opposed to economic property rights) is a mechanism of society to promote the kind of long-view that borodog has previously talked about. However there is nothing inallienable about it, it's simply a means to an end.

and for some help on getting where i'm coming from, I think AC fails to adequately account for collective action costs, as well as providing adequate incentive for an individual to accept the status quo and not challenge the property rights system.

My basic argument with AC i believe, is that i see property rights as organic and evolutionary as opposed as known/static/completely definable.

I'll be happy to clarify anything else.