The head shaker

Frond · #1 07-17-2007, 01:18 PM

4/8 live table is LP.

Hero is in the SB and has been seeing lots of flops cause guy on his left never has raised at all PF. My image right now is that I am a loose player cause I won 2 big pots in a row, one was a J high flush and the other some small 2 pair hand. Both hands I played agg and got looks from several so my bets and raises are getting questioned I can tell.

UTG(loose PF)limps, UTG1 limps, HJ(bad post flop)limps, CO(bad)limps, BTn(woman I have played with before who is not too good)limps, Hero is in the SB with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and completes, BB raps as usual. 7 players

(6 SBs) Flop comes A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Hero leads out, BB calls (as usual), UTG calls, UTG1 folds, HJ folds ,CO calls, BTn raises, Hero 3 bets, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG1 folds, CO calls, Btn calls.

(9.5 BBs) Turn comes the 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Hero Bets, BB folds, UTG folds, CO calls, BTN calls and "SHAKES HER HEAD"

(12.5 BBs) River comes the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Hero leads, CO calls, BTn raises. Hero goes into further think mode. Hero calls, CO calls. (18.5 BBs)

Further info:
I knew CO was bad and he hadn't shown any agg yet. Played a lot of marg hands. He might have made a small flush

BTn woman: I had played with 2 times before but she didn't recognize me. I knew that her style would not to be raising a flush draw on the flop. She was the type of player to wait till their big hand hit and then raise it, not on the draw. That said, I seriously beleive that I had her tilting a bit cause of hands I had shown down and won with, one of them against her. CO I was a bit concerned that he might be on a flush draw but I V-bet. I was considering 3 betting the BTn's river raise but was aware of the CO poss. small flush. With her river raise I thought that she had a hand since this was her style of raising but then again Jennifer Tilty perhaps?. I'll post the interesting results shortly.

PS. Button Woman? Sounds like a Buffalo Springflield song

Befolder · #2 07-17-2007, 01:25 PM

My first thought when I read the head shake was the 'weak means strong' tell. Shaking her head when she actually hit her flush.

I suppose she also could have hit the wheel, but hated the third spade, but if that were the case, I don't think she'd raise the river.

I vote for made flush on turn.

gobbledygeek · #3 07-17-2007, 01:39 PM

I play the hand the exact same way.

My guess: head shaker is disgusted on the turn that her made hand (I'll guess A2, 22 or 77) is no good due to flush on board.

TheCount212 · #4 07-17-2007, 01:39 PM

Great post.
My first question is, did we make eye contact with our Button Woman? In other words, did she know that you saw her shake her head? If she knows you saw her, she hit her flush. If she doesn't know, we can safely believe it was not done for our benefit.
I'm guessing she didn't know you saw her shake her head, and so I'd put her on a hand she loved on the flop and hated on the turn. Perhaps Ah2h. This makes sense b/c of her flop raise, her reaction/call on the turn, and her raise on the river when her prayer is answered.

KitCloudkicker · #5 07-17-2007, 01:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My first thought when I read the head shake was the 'weak means strong' tell. Shaking her head when she actually hit her flush.

I vote for made flush on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

very good sir...you must play live alot

i vote flush as well

Befolder · #6 07-17-2007, 01:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
My first thought when I read the head shake was the 'weak means strong' tell. Shaking her head when she actually hit her flush.

I vote for made flush on turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

very good sir...you must play live alot

i vote flush as well

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't as much as I'd like to, but I also like the other recent analysis of her boating up w/ A2 on the river. Another possibility.

leo doc · #7 07-17-2007, 01:46 PM

Anyone for c/r this flop?

Aces McGee · #8 07-17-2007, 01:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was considering 3 betting the BTn's river raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the head shake and the way the hand played out, three-betting the river would be absolutely horrendous.

There are two explanations for her head shake on the turn.

Either she's got a flush and wants to pretend like she doesn't, or she's being honest and has a strong hand but is scared of/disappointed at the flush draw on board.

You've played with her before, so you know which is most likely. Personally, I've seen it both ways; some people like to overact, and some are just easy to read.

Either way, you are toast on the river. If she was truly disappointed on the turn but now raises the river, she almost always has a boat. I get the feeling she didn't in this case because you say the results are interesting and because of the way you posted the hand, but I think the river is much closer to a fold than a three-bet.

-McGee

gobbledygeek · #9 07-17-2007, 01:50 PM

Most opponents at my 2/4 live table do not give off fake tells (although with some exceptions) and instead tell you exactly what they have. As well, a lot of my 2/4 live table opponents with flushes would be afraid to raise the river due to the board pairing. This all leads me to believe a flush is highly unlikely and a boat/quads much more likely.

[ETA: That said, I think the pot is a bit too big not to call her river raise.]

GseesmonstersG

Mojo56 · #10 07-17-2007, 01:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I was considering 3 betting the BTn's river raise

[/ QUOTE ]

Given the head shake and the way the hand played out, three-betting the river would be absolutely horrendous.

There are two explanations for her head shake on the turn.

Either she's got a flush and wants to pretend like she doesn't, or she's being honest and has a strong hand but is scared of/disappointed at the flush draw on board.

You've played with her before, so you know which is most likely. Personally, I've seen it both ways; some people like to overact, and some are just easy to read.

Either way, you are toast on the river. If she was truly disappointed on the turn but now raises the river, she almost always has a boat. I get the feeling she didn't in this case because you say the results are interesting and because of the way you posted the hand, but I think the river is much closer to a fold than a three-bet.

-McGee

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT.