pkrporcupine please clarify your position

fishboy · #1 07-19-2007, 11:25 PM

I have nothing agaisnt you but you seem to have changed on your stance. From the beginning of the yang tipping thread.

You said you were pissed at CF but you kept on a smile yes? But then you said you werent upset you didn't get a tip? That a hug was enough for you. Btw do you relaize he tipped you anywhere from 150k to 170k on whatever the numbers come out to. And its a little insulting to say all you got was a hug. This money is taken out to assure the dealers and staff get tipped and don't get stiffed. So you werent stiffed by saying all you got was a hug that you were happy to get is ridicuoulus and insulting to everyone's intelligence. You got what you were suppoed to get.

It sounds like your mad becasue CF gave him the info you were hoping yang didnt realize was taken out already. Ok you can argue about the number ferguson gave but the bottom line was he told the guy the dealers are already tipped as they took that out of his proze money. Your pissed because CF(someoen educated and knows his shi* was ther to give him good advice. Nobody can blame you for hoping he gave extra on top of it. But you shouldnt blame CF. He was asked into that room for that specific reason. To give good advice to yang which he did. And he didnt say dont tip them more. He said he(CF)wouldnt give anymore. Yang still could have if he wanted to.

And you also started out blaming CF then starting saying it was harah's fault. Yes that is something you should take up with harah's. But Its not Cf's fault for telling Yang the truth that the tip was already taken out. If you want more money that is betwen the dealers and harah's. Not Cf's fault.

I know how you slide out of admitting that your wrong in saying CF misled him. You say he dint have the exact numbers on what you get. Thats not important because whatever the number is/was is what harah's, and you, and the poeple who entered the tournament agreed to before hand.

Again bottom line is you were hoping CF wasn't there becasue you might have gotten more money. But that not CF's fault. He was there to give good advice to yang and he did. Stop blaming CF for doing the right thing.

And as others have said soem people have to work 2/3 of year to make 2/3 of the years income. Its a short term gig at the wsop and you get paid very well in that short time. If you need more moeny for the rest of the year get another job til the wsop and other big events come up.

The players shouldn't have to be the ones to count on to make you enough money. You work for a wealthy company who can pay you more. But i know you know this already.

You say you should be paid well to put up with obnoxious players. So people who work at dmv, cashiers at kmart, mcdonald's employees don't have to deal with obnoxious people? They don't get paid a high wage. Why are you so special?

Anyway, i have nothing against you and i'm sure you are a nice perosn, and excellent dealer. I just hate dealers that complain they should have gotten more or dont feel they get tipped well enough. As dealers almost everywhere get way over tipped on a regualr basis. And always give yo a dirty look if you win a big pot and only give a dollar. they don't relaise i dont have to give anyhitng if i dont want. And where are you when i lose a thousand dollar pot. Do you give me a couple dollars? Its up the people you work for to pay you more if need be. But i think you do well as it is.

ibluffoldladies · #2 07-19-2007, 11:26 PM

ban

Photoc · #3 07-19-2007, 11:29 PM

This couldn't have been posted in the thread that is going already?

fishboy · #4 07-20-2007, 12:13 AM

That thread was way too long and thought it might get buried. Was just curious how/why did her postion change. It started out saying she got stiffed but it wasn't yang's fault. It was cf's fault. The she changes and say she wasnt stiffed and she get paid very well. Then she changes again and says she didnt get paid enough and dealers need representation next year so they get paid better. She bounces her positon aorund like a yo-yo.

brendanb438 · #5 07-20-2007, 12:31 AM

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FireStorm · #6 07-20-2007, 12:36 AM

I myself have been both a part time and full time poker dealer/tournament director at social clubs and a casino boat, and I can tell you that dealer complaints are something I've heard constantly. Dealers always want more and more and more, just like everyone else in life. They hate getting stiffed on tips and also dislike "courtesy" $1 tokes no matter what pot gets dragged. Tournament tips usually end up being less than the house thinks they should be, and dealers have been known to become irritated at the loads of money the house brings in off rake as compared to their tips. Thus, none of the griping at the WSOP surprises me.

Myself, personally, I feel that in most spots, dealers are very well compensated. I've rarely, if ever complained. Pays a lot better than most jobs, and this is coming from a graduate of a private, $25k a year university. I got involved in part time dealing despite my extensive education simply because it was a profitable scenario to add to positions I held in a marginal and difficult job market. I don't feel dealers should bitch, they ought to simply keep their head down, try and enjoy themselves, and take the fairly easy money from something that's not incredibly difficult to do. Believe me, the numbers are always there. The worst places I've ever dealt, an average night would be $125-$150 cash .... at better venues, one could easily average $300+ nightly for 6-8 hours of work, with highs into the $500's. Nothing to sneeze at.

pkrporcupine · #7 07-20-2007, 01:01 AM

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I have nothing agaisnt you but you seem to have changed on your stance. From the beginning of the yang tipping thread.

You said you were pissed at CF but you kept on a smile yes? But then you said you werent upset you didn't get a tip? That a hug was enough for you. Btw do you relaize he tipped you anywhere from 150k to 170k on whatever the numbers come out to. And its a little insulting to say all you got was a hug. This money is taken out to assure the dealers and staff get tipped and don't get stiffed. So you werent stiffed by saying all you got was a hug that you were happy to get is ridicuoulus and insulting to everyone's intelligence. You got what you were suppoed to get.

First off, I never claimed that I was or any of the dealers were stiffed by Jerry Yang. And yes, I am not there to influence the winner to tip so i kept my composure. As for my hug from Jerry, that was a personal thank you from him to me. I never intended for everyone to take it the way you are implying. And yes I fully understand the percentage for the staff and what it represents. You have wrongly assumed that I didnt like CF stating the 1.8% and estimated ammout to JY, my issue is that CF took the time to clarify i detail the tax situation that he is facing, the best way to keep some cash and how to handle the rest of the payout but did not fully detail the 1.8% that is withheld. It may be a trivial thing to many but to me I felt that we deserved that same fully detailed explaination too. I do not expect any player to tip extra and the same goes for here and that is why I explained that my extra thank you from JY was the now famous hug. But of course that was taken by others as you say an insult and was NEVER intended that way. So all in all, alot of your confusion is from false intent and misunderstanding where I am coming from. 

It sounds like your mad becasue CF gave him the info you were hoping yang didnt realize was taken out already. Ok you can argue about the number ferguson gave but the bottom line was he told the guy the dealers are already tipped as they took that out of his proze money. Your pissed because CF(someoen educated and knows his shi* was ther to give him good advice. Nobody can blame you for hoping he gave extra on top of it. But you shouldnt blame CF. He was asked into that room for that specific reason. To give good advice to yang which he did. And he didnt say dont tip them more. He said he(CF)wouldnt give anymore. Yang still could have if he wanted to.
Sir I was there and CF did say "It works out to be about 170k that you have already tipped them so no, I would not leave anymore. As I read along here trying my best to answer your questions, unfortunately I did not take the time to fully read your post before I hit reply and it seems to have turned into "bash laurie" time. You have wrongly inferred again that I was pissed that CF told him what I didnt want him to hear? You are wrong. I will say again, I never EXPECT a tip from any player. I never insulted CF or JY, and it was Oliver that invited CF into the room, I never argued the ammounts he stated, I olny take issue with what he did not tell JY. As in 1.8% is split 70/30, and that there are over 700 dealers that will share 70% of that 170k. If at that point JY woulddecline to tip, I would still respect his choice but also have more respect for CF for telling the whole truth and not just part of it. And JY did not fully understand how it was all broken down and that is why he took CF's advice on everything. That is not insulting to JY at all, it is simply the truth.

And you also started out blaming CF then starting saying it was harah's fault. Yes that is something you should take up with harah's. But Its not Cf's fault for telling Yang the truth that the tip was already taken out. If you want more money that is betwen the dealers and harah's. Not Cf's fault.
 Yet again you are taking my comments the wrong way. I only blamed CF for not telling the whole truth about how the automatic tip was distributed. I only wish that he would have fully explained this like he did everything else to JY, IMO, that is misleading. And as a player you would really argue with me that it is ultimately Harrahs responsibility to ensure that the dealers and staff are properly paid so they dont have to breed this "expectation" attitude towards the players to "toke extra"? Very confusing but ok. And again I did not nor ever "expect" anything extra from JY. 
I know how you slide out of admitting that your wrong in saying CF misled him. You say he dint have the exact numbers on what you get. Thats not important because whatever the number is/was is what harah's, and you, and the poeple who entered the tournament agreed to before hand.
 This makes no sense other than your just trying to insult me. If you havent noticed, this topic is exactly where all the confusion seems to be between the players and the dealers. There are tons of posts in the original thread from players asking how the money is handled for the staff, who gets what and what ammounts. I will not disclose my pay for reasons that are already stated in the other thread. 

Again bottom line is you were hoping CF wasn't there becasue you might have gotten more money. But that not CF's fault. He was there to give good advice to yang and he did. Stop blaming CF for doing the right thing.
*sigh* I am highly impressed at your ability to assume my intent that night but yet agian, you are wrong. I would love to answer a question, but there seems to be none to answer here. 

And as others have said soem people have to work 2/3 of year to make 2/3 of the years income. Its a short term gig at the wsop and you get paid very well in that short time. If you need more moeny for the rest of the year get another job til the wsop and other big events come up.
And again you have made a poor assumption with that staement too. As I stated in my OP, I am very pleased with how this WSOP was for me. I have been paid, IMO, very well and what I am worth.
I have tried my best to explain myself and i have tried my best to point out that you have incorrectly implyed my intent and i have tried to point out your misunderstanding from bad assumptions. 
The players shouldn't have to be the ones to count on to make you enough money. You work for a wealthy company who can pay you more. But i know you know this already.

You say you should be paid well to put up with obnoxious players. So people who work at dmv, cashiers at kmart, mcdonald's employees don't have to deal with obnoxious people? They don't get paid a high wage. Why are you so special?

Anyway, i have nothing against you and i'm sure you are a nice perosn, and excellent dealer. I just hate dealers that complain they should have gotten more or dont feel they get tipped well enough. As dealers almost everywhere get way over tipped on a regualr basis. And always give yo a dirty look if you win a big pot and only give a dollar. they don't relaise i dont have to give anyhitng if i dont want. And where are you when i lose a thousand dollar pot. Do you give me a couple dollars? Its up the people you work for to pay you more if need be. But i think you do well as it is.

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