2 weird river spots vs. fish

#1 07-23-2006, 08:59 PM

Villian is the weakest player at the table for sure. He is 29/6/0.46 over 48 hands. I am playing straightforward TAG and fwiw this is the first time I am playing 25/50nl. Do you think river deserves a value bet and to how much?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) internettexasholdem.com

UTG+2 ($4950)
Hero ($6517)
MP2 ($10680.33)
MP3 ($4713.51)
CO ($4725)
Button ($5097)
SB ($4778.06)
BB ($6068.74)
UTG ($5047)
UTG+1 ($7455.51)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $25.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $321, 6 folds, UTG+1 calls $271.

Flop: ($717) 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $666, UTG+1 calls $666.

Turn: ($2049) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $1234, UTG+1 calls $1234.

River: ($4517) 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $4517

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Villian is a megafish playing 65/4/low and I am playing very LAG raising and reraising a lot preflop. He is capable of calling down to river with any pair and any draw. He normally hasn't been betting or raising without a hand however recently I saw him make a strong play (idk if it was a bet/3bet or a squeeze play) play with a Q high flush draw and he took the pot down uncontested and showed. So I guess he is capable of making a bluff raise here esp with my LAGgy image. The river seems like a pretty blank card but vs a fish like this it could easily have made him two pair with 83o.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (6 handed) internettexasholdem.com

SB ($2086)
Hero ($5582)
UTG ($1832.15)
MP ($390)
CO ($1668.67)
Button ($4429.06)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $10.
3 folds, Button calls $20, 1 fold, Hero raises to $100, Button calls $100.

Flop: ($250) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $222, Button calls $222.

Turn: ($694) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $500, Button calls $500.

River: ($1694) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets $999, Button calls $3587.06 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $6280.06

Prevaricator · #2 07-23-2006, 09:35 PM

u can shove riv in hand 1 and hand two you can bet more on riv, and fold is fine.

greg nice · #3 07-23-2006, 09:37 PM

1. depends on what characterizes 'weak'. the river check is most important, which either gives away that he doesnt have a 9, or doesnt.

2. i check and call the river, with the missed flush out there. he may be capable of calling down to river with anything, but this pot is fairly big and many fish will realize that the pots too big for their hand with mid pair.

edit/
2. as played, fold is right

pavey21 · #4 07-23-2006, 09:38 PM

First hand I'd probably value bet in the 1500-2000 range in thinking that he most likely would have led his trips if he hit them on the river, especially if he put you on an overpair and was afraid you might check down. The way the hand played out I would have put him on a draw though IMO.

Second hand I would probably fold too, but i couldnt see him having 83.

#5 07-23-2006, 09:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Second hand I would probably fold too, but i couldnt see him having 83.

[/ QUOTE ]

obviously you haven't played with a 65/4 fish

Prevaricator · #6 07-23-2006, 09:46 PM

i doubt he bluffs missed hearts.

flawless_victory · #7 07-23-2006, 09:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i doubt he bluffs missed hearts.

[/ QUOTE ]
disagree

Rolen · #8 07-23-2006, 09:55 PM

I can't see you beating anything that he will call a decent sized bet with. However, parhaps a small bet will be called with something like 8Ts, 76s. Does he call these in EP? Of course, you need to be close to 100% sure he will never ckraise with air to make that kind of bet here.

I heard that even Grimstarr would've folded the second one, so your play was almost certainly correct.

pavey21 · #9 07-23-2006, 09:56 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Second hand I would probably fold too, but i couldnt see him having 83.

[/ QUOTE ]

obviously you haven't played with a 65/4 fish

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe a few times, but not too often no. Id still be more about a straight personally, but either way you're beat.

Prevaricator · #10 07-24-2006, 04:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
u can shove riv in hand 1 and hand two you can bet more on riv, and fold is fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

actually i misread hand 1, thought it was raise reraise for some reason. i am leaning towards chk behind now.