Confused, distraught. All over one hand..

furyion21 · #1 07-14-2007, 01:18 AM

Hey everyone,

First, an intro. I'm sitting at a full 10-20 table at Casino Rama; the table is fairly passive. Most of the players are LP/LAG.

As for myself, I'm 21, M-AG (medium agressive).

Here's the hand that's got me questioning ever playing poker again:

I have A9s in middle position. Everyone folds to me; I raise to pick up the blinds. SB folds, BB calls. BB is a newcomer to the table, I've never seen her and she's never seen me. She's played in maybe 5 hands I have been in. She's about 25, seems fairly TAG, and I learned she used to work as a dealer (thus, probably seen a lot of hands live).

Flop comes J-8-4 rainbow. She checks, I bet, she calls.

Turn is a 4. She bets, I raise, she 3-bets. I look down at my cards, convinced she's got my blind-stealing hand crushed.

Then, as she's stacking her chips, she shows her cards showing 93o. She says, "Like a book, buddy," and mucks.

What did I do wrong here? As far as I know, I don't have any glaring tells, but there has got to be a reasoning process here. I've never been owned so bad in a hand, and let me tell you, I wanted to throw up after that one.

Best,
Charles

Allday Everyday · #2 07-14-2007, 01:35 AM

I don't understand why you raised the turn. I would either fold or, against some players, call. If I call, I often/usually call the river UI too. Only reason I would raise would be to fold a better hand, but I think you'd need both a special player, and a special read on that player to make that possible in this situation.

I think it's definately a board that looks unlikely to have helped you, so a good BB could put pressure on you to fold. Actually, a bad or mediocre BB could do it too. This is the reason I would call down against some, thinking my ace high was better. IMO it's a board where A9 high should look pretty good. Did the turn card put a flush draw out there? If so, it makes a 'semi-bluff' more likely. In addition to having the best hand some of the time, you will have outs to the better hand some of the time you are behind. Calling the turn and possibly beyond seems reasonable.

I'm not sure if BB made a really bad, or really good play. What position did you open raise in? The later position you are in, the more I like her play as there is less chance you had a hand. But I think the quality of her play would depend on lots of other things, such as how you both have played/appeared in the short time you have played together. Her play seems okay to me if you have appeared 'MAG'.

Regardless, if this happened to me, I would applaud the other player. In at least one sense you were outplayed and you lost money. Justice as far as I can see. I like her 'showmanship' too.

OregonRogue · #3 07-14-2007, 01:49 AM

No advice, but I feel your pain. I hope she wasnt hot, that would be about the only thing to make it worse.

There is also the real possibility that you dont have a tell here and that she just got lucky. Sometimes player have a set plan of attack her, and she may have been planning on doing this from the beginning on a safe board. If shes knew to the table she might have just wanted you to know to not mess with her blinds.

Love her dig though.

furyion21 · #4 07-14-2007, 01:50 AM

Retrospectively, I should have folded on the turn. I had a read that she was stealing and it was right, but you can't call down a 3-bet with A high in that game.

The turn didn't put a flush draw out; the board was completely rainbow. BB wasn't semi-bluffing, it was a pure 3bet bluff.

I raised UTG+4. In previous hands, she saw me get KK cracked, and win with a straight 78s.

The reason I'm posting is people I was outplayed. There's really no excuse or anything I can come up with other than what you've said; either she had a solid read that the board didn't help me with ace high, or she just simply decided to defend her bb like nobody's business.

As for her showmanship, her little snide comment made me want to leave the table.

OregonRogue · #5 07-14-2007, 01:59 AM

"As for her showmanship, her little snide comment made me want to leave the table"

Which was her goal, because she probably would have thrown out of the casino hdad she stood up, kick you in the balls, and told you to not [censored] with her blind

Allday Everyday · #6 07-14-2007, 02:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Retrospectively, I should have folded on the turn. I had a read that she was stealing and it was right, but you can't call down a 3-bet with A high in that game.

[/ QUOTE ]
Oh I wasn't advocating calling the 3 bet. I thought calling the first turn bet was an option. By the time someone 3 bets, they generally have a better hand than would be correct for you to call down against. That said, if her 3-bet doesn't give you more reason to think she has a legit hand, or gives you more reason to think you have her beat, why can't you call down in this game? The pot is paying even better odds than before. But yeah, I think these occasions would be rare, especially in a live game.

WhiteKnight · #7 07-14-2007, 06:59 AM

Fold the turn - you say she's TAGish, so she's prolly got something and isn't going away.

Is opening with A9s from MP standard?

Table talk is fine, imho, especially when it's somewhat witty (as was her book comment). Just look for an opportunity to bust her balls in the future [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

chesspain · #8 07-14-2007, 07:01 AM

As others have already said, raising the turn was spew. I'ld be torn beteen calling and folding the initial turn bet.

Allday Everyday · #9 07-14-2007, 09:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Is opening with A9s from MP standard?

[/ QUOTE ]
I think it's a close decision. I think raising is correct in my online games. I think it should be folded in EP and EMP.

James. · #10 07-14-2007, 09:33 AM

dude, this [censored] happens every once in a while. keep yourself out of these situations.

in poker, ego can be one of the biggest causes of money loss. it can induce tilt, overaggression, passivity, and other facets of generally bad play. choke it down, say great hand, and take a mental note. move on. you were outplayed this one time. do your best to not let it happen again, and of course keep an eye out to return the favor.

whether you realize it or not, she's likely picked up something on you. at least in this one hand. maybe you weren't betting/raising with the same tempo or maybe it was something else, but either way there was probably a difference between this and(for instance) your KK hand.