I am Bad NL Live Cash Game Player Why?

[KrazyKelson]

I do fairly well in live tournaments but when I try to get the nerve to try a live cash game once again I always lose. Due to this knowledge I only play NL cash games at the 0.50-1.00 so I can try to keep my loses to a minimum and so that I can buy in cheaply. I only play after I win a live tournament as well giving me a boost in my mind that it is really money I just won and not from my pay cheque. I limit myself to $50 starting out.

I will sit down with the intentions of playing good cards and maybe limp in once in awile cheaply with hands that depends on my position. Although I sit down and all the players are throwing their money around like crazy especially after the flop. example $20 pot they will throw out $15+ bet or so.

I am very frustrated after watching players who play any two cards and call right to the river win big money for the stakes they are at. I consider them donkeys when I see them call a raise of 3-5 times the BB with 6-2 in mid position and it baffles me that they win a lot of the time. I have sat down at several cash games and have not won a single hand, yeah really not one. Examples are:

My stack is dwindling and I look down at 99 and I get heads up with one other guy who I know is aggressive. He raises me before the flop, I call he makes a continuation bet and with top pair I go all in he flips over 66 and trips up on the turn.

Last night I was playing with a bunch of maniacs and once again my stack dwindled down from $45 to $14. I look down at QQ I was in early position and I raised to $5 I had 3 callers One caller bought in for $100 and was the type of guy that is a rough 24/7 smoker/drinker/crazy gambler, hasn't bathed in a week and does not care about money - do you know this type of guy I am talking about? I watched him throw chips around like it was monoply money. Anyway he was on my right so he was the last one to call my raise and he already had $1 before the raise so it only cost him $4 in a pot that was already up to $16 so he decided to call - which I think he should of. The boards comes up J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]?K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] I was so frustrated at this time for not getting any cards for an hour and not able to see any flops that I just pushed all in for the other $8 I did not care about the K so the other two guys fold and the villan calls me with a 5-9 of hearts. I looked down and knowing my luck I said "You will hit your heart." He says "I know" Frustrating me even more. Yeah he hit it on the turn and I just got up and left voicing my frustrations that I have never won a hand in any live cash games that I have ever played in.

I need some advice and encouragment to keep playing these cash games I know they can be profitable but how can I make money at it? they say you need to be aggressive to win at cash games but I can not justify calling raises with crap cards and trying to be aggressive with good cards when they will call you to the river or raise you with crap and almost always hit. Do I need to buy in more so I can raise 10-15 times the BB to get out some of these maniacs? That seems a bit excessive if true.

Do I make sense? I am so frustrated right now I do not even know if I am. This is my first post on here. I thought I would post because I really need help.

[Beanos]

Everytime you get your money in favourite, be happy about it. I would buy in for more, but if you dont feel comfortable then dont worry. Raise bigger preflop with premium hands and big cards. I would have shoved for 14 dollars with those queens, sounds like you would have got a call.

Sounds like you dont play these cash games often (only when you win a tournament) so you probably havent been playing long enough for variance to swing in your favour. Just stick with it, if it doesnt frustrate you too much

[kekedarius]

I don't even know where to start, honestly. It sounds to me like you have a very weak grip on even the fundamentals of the game, and should go check out uNL a bit, particularly the master stick essential selection thread. Start at 25NL, buy in for a full stack, and grind it out until you feel more confident with your game and start seeing some positive results. Post at least two tough hands a day and slowly figure out how to play profitably.

These crazy donkey maniacs you talk about are who you make like 90% of your money off of, especially at SSNL. I mean... the flush hand is sooo standard. You put your money in good, but are still only a 65% favorite. As in you'll lose 35 times out of 100. This is a very basic concept and you should put happy you got all your money in as a pretty big overdog.

[keikiwai]

refresh your stack

leave when you get frustrated

[keikiwai]

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overdog.

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favorite

[paulnic]

be happy your playing these maniacs who are getting lucky and hitting there 3 outers etc because as previously said this is where all of your profit comes from. good players never suck out because they are always ahead when the money goes in. multiply these hands by a thousand and u will come out a substancial winner. the trick is not to get caught in the trap of playing weak hands because joe bloggs does. just because he played 62o and flopped the nut str8 doesnt mean it is a profitable play. he will lose with those cards the next 15 times he plays them so be happy he did and just say "Nice hand well played".

edit: it is impossible to flop the nut str8 with 62o i know before anyone comments...

[tomek322]

Sounds like you are underfunded to play in this game. I would suggest having three buy-ins next time. Instead of going and playing with 50 at a time, cut your next five trips off, put the money aside, and go down with $300.

Games like these, I would suggest making big PF raises with monsters. At 1-2 in a casino, PF raises are generally 6-10BB. I wouldn't limp OOP if the game is raised every hand, if it is not being raised a ton limp in position in hands that play well multi way(PP, SC, One Gappers). You want to make big hands, not TPTK in a 6 way pot.

On this given hand, sucks you took a bad beat, but honestly with $14 left, I would probably just get up and save myself the remainder of the money. Money not lost buys as much stuff as money won. When you're frustrated and almost felted, I think you are psychologicly just looking to go busto. No point of staying.

Lastly live cash games and online tourney, do not play remotely the same way. You have to play the turn and river in cash games. Hardly ever is it, raise PF, and shove flop.

[PoppaTMan]

Why do you try these cash games? Do you enjoy playing in them? It sure doesn't sound like it. If you need the money, then stick to playing tournaments (sounds like you enjoy these more), and if that's not possible, do something else for extra cash.

Small stakes live poker certainly has the ability to drive reasonable people completely insane. The style you play is one for the long run, and that doesn't come for quite some time at the abysmal rate of most live games. If you can't enjoy the atmosphere, then turtle up like the others with a hat, sunglasses, and iPod.

Cards do not have memory, so the only reason you should be concerned with how many hands you've played recently is to take into account your own table image. Also, complaining about variance (other players hitting, you losing hands that you played well) is for weak people, and is frowned upon here. You must look at the game from a theoretical point of view, and like another poster said, be happy whenever you get the money in ahead, or bluff a better hand into folding. This is how you make money in the long run, and that's what it seems like you're doing, so Good Job! Here's a RamJam.

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but when I try to get the nerve to try a live cash game once again I always lose. Due to this knowledge I only play NL cash games at the 0.50-1.00 so I can try to keep my loses to a minimum

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You're looking at this all wrong. As I mentioned above, it appears you are making less mistakes than the other players at the table. Thus, you maximize your winnings by buying in for the most that you can (no need to change stakes though) while still feeling comfortable and being able to play your game.

Finally, as a general observation, you need to work on emotional control and mental toughness if you want to continue playing in these games that you don't enjoy. I know it's not that easy, but everyone has room for improvement in these areas.

[KrazyKelson]

Thank you very much guys for your ideas, thoughts, encouragment and last but not least constructive criticism. I really appreciate it. I will try it out again with some of the ideas you have given me.