I hate these spots

[werero]

Villian looks agressive over a small sample

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is BB with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
UTG raises, 2 folds, Hero 3-bets, UTG calls.

Flop: 7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4.5SB, 2 players)
Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3.25BB, 2 players)
Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero?

This happens fairly often. Is c/c a better plan here to avoid getting raised? When getting raised do i have odds to call here and can i c/f the river UI in that case

[kimchi]

I just b/f the turn. You have no re-draws, yet the board is full of draws and you're probably already way behind.

Even though villain is aggro, I'd wait for a better spot/better position.

[runway model]

[ QUOTE ]
I just b/f the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the worst possible line. What does betting achieve - no better hands will fold on this board, and it doesn't even protect our hand if we are ahead - it's hard to imagine any hand that villain opens UTG that he will then fold to a turn bet? Since villain is suspected aggro, he might also be semibluffing KQ, KTs or raising small pps (def a decent part of his range) for a free showdown...

I would c/c turn and then choose between c/f or c/c river.

[Bill Haywood]

I'm with Kimchi, ya got bad draws, let him have this one.

The pot is still small, relative to the two more big bets you'll probably have to pay to see the river.

If he does these turn raises with air, it will soon be apparent and you'll get your two bets back. Why pay two more bets to find out something you can learn for free watching him play everyone else? If he slow-plays real hands, you just saved yourself 2 bb, which is an hour or more of work.

And yes, lead out on the flop. People who miss it routinely fold.

[MacGuyV]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I just b/f the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the worst possible line. What does betting achieve - no better hands will fold on this board, and it doesn't even protect our hand if we are ahead - it's hard to imagine any hand that villain opens UTG that he will then fold to a turn bet? Since villain is suspected aggro, he might also be semibluffing KQ, KTs or raising small pps (def a decent part of his range) for a free showdown...

I would c/c turn and then choose between c/f or c/c river.

[/ QUOTE ]

What does checking achieve? UTG = CO in this case. There are a ton of hands he folds on the turn and a bunch of worse hands he calls with too.
I will check here every once in a while but as standard play? To do that I feel like I better either start screwplaying a ton or flop pairs at a much higher rate.

[yourface]

I end up check calling here a lot of the time vs aggressive villains. they will bet like 100% of their range here and we avoid getting bluffed out

it hasn't been working out too well lately though, see my AKo thread. part of it is variance but also I think my hand becomes too transparent.

like I take b>c/r lines with good hands but never b>c/c>c/r

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I end up check calling here a lot of the time vs aggressive villains. they will bet like 100% of their range here and we avoid getting bluffed out

it hasn't been working out too well lately though, see my AKo thread. part of it is variance but also I think my hand becomes too transparent.

like I take b>c/r lines with good hands but never b>c/c>c/r

[/ QUOTE ]

I mix in a turn checkraise here every now and then (with AQ), but it makes the river a disaster and sometimes even the turn. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

[runway model]

[ QUOTE ]
There are a ton of hands he folds on the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

Such as...??

He's not folding a pair on a J high board. He's not folding KQ. Most villains are not going to fold a gutshot with an overcard. What does that leave apart from A4-A2 which we dominate?

[ QUOTE ]
What does checking achieve?

[/ QUOTE ]

It guarantees we see the river for one bet, which is the best EV play. It guarantees we don't fold the best hand on the turn.

This isn't a pretty spot, oop on a horrible board v a suspected aggro villain who isn't folding and who *may* semi-bluff. So don't b/f.

[bboy_]

i wouldn't mind just calling preflop against an aggressive opponent for this very reason

[Oink]

Meh. I am weak tight. But I give up on that turn a lot. Draws filled up and the spot has RIO written all over it. gg next hand.