Stud/8 cold calling raises.

[ACPlayer]

Jacked up two way 10/20 game.

You are faced with calling two bets cold from a King and an Ace. You have three bike cards no flush possibilities. You think the Ace has a low draw but are not sure of course (you have an ace in the hole and the player likes to raise all playable hands). All your bike low cards are live you have seen two non-bike low cards.

Call/Fold/Raise?

Second -- how many bets can you call in these types of situations.

[Andy B]

As long as most of what I'm looking for is live, I don't have a problem with calling a cap with a three-card bike. I probably wouldn't raise if it were two bets already, though.

[Alchemist]

Calling is probably best. Your hand is too good to fold and there isn't much point in raising yet.

[Humble Pie]

I think calling is your best option, raising seems a bit like a spew, and folding is giving up way too much equity. As long as your low drawing cards are live you should be able to cold-call a capped pot.

[Tha Stunna]

Call.

Raising would be terrible if it would knock out the king; you would be trying to isolate yourself against someone who has a slightly worse or much better hand.

I probably wouldn't fold three to a wheel on 3rd unless it was three bets to me, as long as my cards were pretty live. Maybe if it was something like an A raises, a tight player with a 4 reraises, and I have 235, I might fold fearing trips or fighting for a low against a pair of aces. I would probably never fold for 2 bets if one player had a high card up.

[ACPlayer]

I called and called a brick on fourth (any quibbles here)? Ended with a good low.

Just checking thanks for the confirmation.

[Andy B]

With that much money going in on third, you're forced to peel on fourth, especially if it's only one bet.

[templar999]

I think I have folded 3 wheel cards with an ace in the 10.20 games I've played exactly once when 4 bets cold to me and I was certain someone was rolled and a bunch of low hands went nuts. As it turned out the first raiser had aces and the other guys both had 3 to a 7 high straight flush.

But I disagree that raising is a spew, especially if you're going to play this holding anyway. If the king completed and the ace raised, if you think your 3 bet can get the king out, you should do it, more than once in awhile. And if the king is a decent player, there is no way he should be calling two more bets with just a pair of kings.

Scenario 1. The completer has kings and the reraiser has aces. If he doesn't have a wheel card, your equity looks something like this, 3-handed, then 2 handed.

pokenum -mc 500000 -7s8 kd kc qd - ah as js - ad 3h 5c
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Kc Kd Qd 66063 168872 331116 12 0 0 0 0.235
As Js Ah 113954 255946 244000 54 16359 10086 208 0.382
5c Ad 3h 72575 75128 424830 42 283420 3862 208 0.383
-----------------------

pokenum -mc 500000 -7s8 ah as js - ad 3h 5c / kc kd
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
As Js Ah 178499 394567 105345 88 15372 8677 184 0.578
5c Ad 3h 100531 105345 394567 88 274805 3470 184 0.422

Yes, while it is better to be at 38% three-handed than 42% headsup, it's not that bad with the dead money in there. And take into account that unless you immediately pair your door card, which you don't really want, or an ace, which would be good for you, you'll have a positional advantage for most of the hand. And you do even better if the kings get stubborn and don't fold. Conversely, you do a little worse if the aces has a wheel card, especially one that you need.

So raising in this spot is not a spew by any means. It may be a little -EV, but not a whole lot.

Scenario 2. But we've already assumed that he has aces. What if the guy doesn't have aces, and has a hand just like yours? Then in this case, if you're going to play, you must raise the king out! And hope you win a race with the two other low cards that the ace has.

pokenum -mc 500000 -7s8 kd kc qd - ah 2s 6h - ad 3h 5c
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
Kc Kd Qd 64366 303825 196167 8 0 0 0 0.368
2s Ah 6h 53973 91279 408681 40 184808 64262 1314 0.308
5c Ad 3h 69955 104855 395111 34 191944 57096 1314 0.324

------------------

pokenum -mc 500000 -7s8 ah 2s 6h - ad 3h 5c / kd kc qd
7-card Stud Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled outcomes
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
2s Ah 6h 133359 238431 261419 150 185034 64085 1386 0.488
5c Ad 3h 145370 261419 238431 150 191758 56886 1386 0.512

And if your opponent has anything other than 3 low or aces, such as A77, then you should really get in as much money as you can.

[ACPlayer]

Very interesting and well worth studying further. In the particular hand the Ace could have a wide range of hands (including razz type hands and sometimes nines etc in the hole).

[SweetLuckyMe]

Call any number of bets - especially with the king in there.