Would it ever be wise to lay down pocket aces (A,A) pre-flop ?!!?

Spechel EDD · #1 06-18-2007, 07:16 PM

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=1#Post10788215
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I hope that got your attention. Also note that this is purely theoretical and not any advice I would give anyone or maybe even follow because I have never seen the scenario come up.

With that said I will state a few truths and then go into the scenario.

I hope that you would agree that calling an all-in in too many coinflips is dumb and risky business for someone trying to make money in the game, this is especilly true for someone trying to stay alive in tournaments. (Say you get involved with even 2-coinflips the better chances you are to lose and get knocked out even if the scenario was 60/40 the more you risk and all-in even at those better odds the greater chances of being knocked out.) Hopefully you'll agree on that unless you just like to gamble; then that would make you a gambler and not a poker player; note that normally applies to tournament logic as a professional with a large bankroll probably would push even a 2% edge (sometimes) (52/48) because in the long-run it would be profitable.

Then I would say that it is smart to never make any type of preflop call when the odds are against you, even the dumbest player on the planet could agree too that. Such as if you are a 40/60 against. Obvious right.

Now to set up the scenario say you are involved in a large tournament and you look down and see pocket aces (AA). Everyone at the full table (9-players) is about even stack. Most players are weak the overestimate too many hands ect. And you act last.

Player 1: raises about half of his stack.
Player 2: re-raises all-in
Player 3: FOLD
Player 4: goes all-in
Player 5: also goes all-in
Player 6: all-in (he is the chip leader but only slight)
Player 7: also goes all in.
Player 8: FOLD
You(A,A): [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

The scenario is this 5 players before you have gone all in essentialy no one can bet another out of this pot it will all be seen down to the river. And there is a stron possibility that the person who made the initial bet will also call and go all in.

You may think that this scenario is a dream come true it will pit 6-players against your ?unbreakable? pocket aces.

But if you think about this your odds of winning are probably something like 40-43% maybe worse putting you as an underdog. . . and underdog with aces immpossible right. Nope. Think of it this way with everyone all-in like this all 7 of will see it to the river, against any one player you have then destroyed but collectivly they are legion because in this secnario you will get knocked out by any one of them pitting six hands against one. Even if you have two dominated that means it pits a player who will only have a pair of aces against 4-players who are live against you and two who probably can out-draw you still. This leaves the only way you can win is with only a pair of aces or the very slim possibility for you to get four to the flush to win and even rarer is four to the straight because there may be less cards out for the high end of the straight. ! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] ! If this logic still confuses you play with an odds claculator pre-flop.

With all of this in mind I ask again, would it ever be wise to fold aces pre-flop?

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Spechel EDD · #2 06-18-2007, 07:16 PM

the games are dying

Squareview · #3 06-18-2007, 07:18 PM

huh?

Spechel EDD · #4 06-18-2007, 07:19 PM

nothin just venting and bout to go run

bsheck · #5 06-18-2007, 07:19 PM

The answer is yes. Good no limit players don't go broke with one pair.

ImsaKidd · #6 06-18-2007, 07:21 PM

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huh?

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aces can get cracked, watch out!

shortline99 · #7 06-18-2007, 07:22 PM

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huh?

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aces can get cracked, watch out!

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hey, you're a shortstacker, is it ever correct in shortstack omfg shortstack poker

bigt2k4 · #8 06-18-2007, 07:29 PM

I will give a situation. 200nl, SB and BB(you) have about 1 billion dollars in chips.
Entire table folds to SB who moves all in for 1 billion and shows his black aces face up. The dealer while folding accidentally fipped over his cards when he went to muck them showing 2h7d. You look down @ red aces, you do not have the odds to call the $1 billion.

yid3655 · #9 06-18-2007, 07:32 PM

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I will give a situation. 200nl, SB and BB(you) have about 1 billion dollars in chips.
Entire table folds to SB who moves all in for 1 billion and shows his black aces face up. The dealer while folding accidentally fipped over his cards when he went to muck them showing 2h7d. You look down @ red aces, you do not have the odds to call the $1 billion.

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how did they get $1billion stacks?

sounds like some crazy game

paulw · #10 06-18-2007, 07:36 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Button ($24.65)
SB ($23.70)
Hero ($25.45)
UTG ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG posts a blind of $0.25.
UTG (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB raises to $0.75, Hero raises to $2.85, UTG folds, SB calls $2.25.

Flop: ($6.37) T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
SB bets $0.25, Hero raises to $5, SB raises to $9.75, Hero calls $25.20 (All-In), SB calls $23.60 (All-In).

Turn: ($69.92) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($69.92) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $69.92

Results below:
SB has Ts Ad (three of a kind, tens).
Hero has Ac As (two pair, aces and tens).
Outcome: SB wins $69.91.

fold AA pre-flop ftw yo