Adjusting to Wild Games

[Hair_of_the_Dog]

When playing some live games I find that there are sometime 3-4 (9,9) mainiac type players. These players will raise and re-raise the flop with any 2 cards (and I mean any). 80% of flops are raised and 30% of those are capped. With this type of insanity you can be way up and then way down in no time. When you can't read players, pots are huge and every card is a draw how do you adjust?

I find that I do pretty well in these games, but it only seems like luck and the stress level is pretty high. I mostly feel like I have no idea what is going on. I suppose starting with better hands helps and valuing strong draws more than big pairs helps as well. I also find that calling a bet from MP usually mean calling a raise down the line. I have a hard time cold calling when I'm on a strong draw, I suppose I should raise these when the time is right. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ProfessorBen]

Try to isolate one of them with your premium hands.
Get to showdown if you have showdown value without the nuts.
Tighten your limping and coldcalling ranges because you'll have to pay more bets.
Tighten your range in general.
Make sure you have an adequate bankroll to deal with the increased variance.
Don't bluff.
Learn to count pots odds but to account for raises behind you when you are not closing the action.

[floppynuts92]

Just play your game and the chips will come.

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
valuing strong draws more than big pairs helps as well

[/ QUOTE ]

i think you have this backwards. the big pairs will usually give you a big edge over the any two cards guys. sure they may get lucky in the short run, but you'll take it all back and a whole lot more in the long run. also, since your implied odds go down when it's constantly capped preflop and on the flop, drawing hands lose some profitability.

in a nutshell, big cards make the big money in these games. HEPFAP has a section on this, btw.

[Frond]

I was playing on a LLHE live game a few months back. It was pretty much LP until a few new players sat and then the whole table got really wild and loose Preflop. I wasn't quite ready for this having never sat on a table that was this wild and I lost a lot very fast cause I was trying to play a LP style on a wild table. I def had to tighten up my hands a lot but one also has to be willing to bang with hands like suited Aces, any pairs, high unsuited Broadways and stay away from those unsuited smaller broadway hands & small suited connectors(esp OOP).(thank you Bernie)

Prof Ben is dead on as far as having a bit more bank for the variance factor.

[ProfessorBen]

James: I think it depends on whether they are as crazy post flop as they are preflop. In the game he described, I think you are dead on because most of the action will be preflop/flop, but I have seen enough wild LLHE games where the post flop spew makes his point.

[Hair_of_the_Dog]

Yeah, I didn't mention the action post flop. It tends to be progressively less wild each street. So the flop get's raised and re-raised, but maybe not capped and the turn get raised, but rarely 3bet and the river is usually bet/call. At any rate the pot is usually very big. Your pot odds are generally in the teens most of the time.

I've found that when I play big pairs I get sucked out on unless there are only a few players (3-4 on the flop and 1-2 after the turn). I'm not saying that I don't play big pairs, but I do value bet the crap out of my strong draws.

[Bob T.]

[ QUOTE ]
I suppose starting with better hands helps

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, and so does an industrial strength seat belt. It will be a wild ride.

One thing that I have noticed, is if I play low enough, so that the volatility of a game doesn't scare me, then I play a lot better, and I seem to do also get a lot better results.

Most of the online games I play in, I have a bankroll of over 1000 big bets, and always over 400 big bets. Live, I always have 4-5 hundred big bets in my bankroll. That means that anything that happens, affects me today, but it doesn't really matter in the big scheme of things, because I still have the bankroll to sit in the same game tomorrow, and the day after tomorrow.

So, if you are playing well within your bankroll, just try and find good spots to GAMBLE, and hope that things work out ok.

[Bob T.]

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Don't bluff.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to argue with this one, a little bit. Because your opponents have wandered into huge pots without regard to their hands, they frequently don't have a hand postflop, and you do have some opportunities to steal pots on the turn and river, but you have to pick your spots carefully, based on the board, the action, and your image.

Just a little bit more on image, frequently in these games, you will find yourself on the sideline watching the action unless you wake up with a big hand. Your opponents might notice this, and suddenly, you find yourself not getting paid off on the end. Now maybe you get into the pot from the blinds, and catch a draw, but there isn't much action. Now, might be the time, because they've identified you as a 'nut-peddlar', and if they all missed, you might be able to steal the pot.

Since you aren't one of the guys who gives action all the time, they might not want to give action back, and you might be able to steal a pot or two before they get curious.

In the live games that I play in, I am usually not a big bluffer, but if I find myself not getting paid off, then I loosen the raigns quite a bit, and try and keep my tight image, at the same time I am making a lot of plays on the turn and river, especially if it gets to headsup.

[ProfessorBen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Don't bluff.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm going to argue with this one, a little bit. Because your opponents have wandered into huge pots without regard to their hands, they frequently don't have a hand postflop, and you do have some opportunities to steal pots on the turn and river, but you have to pick your spots carefully, based on the board, the action, and your image.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a legit point. I was thinking of larger multi-way pots where showdown is guaranteed, but bluffs could make sense in pots that go 3-4 way because 1)pots will be big 2)opponents will often have junk 3) your image. I'm just not advocating the c/r OOP on the turn in anticipation of pushing out the field and barreling the river to get the turn bettor to fold.