$1/$2 live. weak draw, small bet, multi-way pot. implied odds?

[chopchoi]

$1/2 I have $450. Stacks range from $300 to $1000. Most of the players are calling stations, but there is one aggressive player in the hand.

I'm the button with A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. 2 players limp ahead of me, I limp, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

SB bets $10, 2 players call.

I have a gutshot, a 3 flush and an overcard. I have to consider my outs, my implied odds, the chance I could hit my ace and lose more money, or make my straight and split the pot... is a call here +EV?

[KurtSF]

$10 into $40? Closing the action?

Yeah, easy call and re-evaluate the turn.

[jimmytrick]

I agree. Who raises pre-flop?

[whorasaurus]

raise to 17 pre

[chopchoi]

I raise to 17 pre, both players call.

It checks to me on the flop, I bet $35, one of them calls.
Turn: check-check.
River: he bets $60 and I fold.

Sounds like a waste of $ to me. Whats wrong with getting in cheap, hoping to hit the flop hard and get paid off?

[chopchoi]

I'm bumping because I'd like someone to explain a raise is better than a limp here.

The benefits of raising: 1) the blinds will probably fold, so I'll only have to play against 2 opponents instead of 4. 2) if they both miss the flop, a c-bet will win me a nice pot. 3) one of my opponents might pay me off with a weaker ace. 4) If my c-bet gets called and I miss the flop or hit it weak, I can probably see the river for free.

Disadvantages: 1) If I miss and get donked, I wasted $15. I could raise a donk bet anyway, but there's a good chance I'd be spewing. 2) If I miss, c-bet and get called or raised, I wasted $50. 3) If I hit my ace, I could easily be up against AT-AQ, or AX that paired its kicker. It's much better to play a small pot than a big one with TPWK.

To me it looks like the disadvantages outweigh the advantages. This isn't a hand I want to build a big pot with. But I'd love to hear from people who think otherwise.

[RyanCMU]

Flop call is an easy one...

Its a live game, I don't think not raising is that big of a deal. Personally, I raise this preflop because thats just what I do and how I play. However, I really don't mind a limp in this situation.

[ijustliketoplay]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop call is an easy one...

Its a live game, I don't think not raising is that big of a deal. Personally, I raise this preflop because thats just what I do and how I play. However, I really don't mind a limp in this situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

my thoughts exactly. sometimes i'll raise sometimes i'll limp. either is fine as part of a mixed strategy. and if you dont call the flop then give up poker.

[chopchoi]

Wow. I actually folded the flop. I thought it was a really close decision. I only have 4 decent outs, and even if I hit, there'll be a 1 gap straight on board which will probably slow down the action. Plus I'll split the a good part of the time, and every so often run into K9 and go broke.

I'm surprised everyone thinks this is such an easy call. How much value did I lose by folding?

[KipBond]

I don't see how you call here.

2,387,489,040 games 32.436 secs 73,606,148 games/sec

Board: Qc Th 8d

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 11.060% 08.01% 03.05% 191338494 72714017.50 { Ac9c }
Hand 1: 29.647% 26.54% 03.11% 633529206 74282970.17 { 88+, AJs+, KJs+, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, AJo+, KJo+, QTo+, J9o+, T8o+, 97o+ }
Hand 2: 29.647% 26.54% 03.11% 633529206 74282970.17 { 88+, AJs+, KJs+, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, AJo+, KJo+, QTo+, J9o+, T8o+, 97o+ }
Hand 3: 29.647% 26.54% 03.11% 633529206 74282970.17 { 88+, AJs+, KJs+, QTs+, J9s+, T8s+, 97s+, AJo+, KJo+, QTo+, J9o+, T8o+, 97o+ }