razz: do you bet 6th?

[CarlosChadha]

Given the action on 5th, I suspected my opponent was on a wheel draw. If he catches another wheel card on 6th should I bet unimproved? What about if I improve on 6th?

Razz ($0.25/$0.50), Ante $0.05, Bring-In $0.10 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.80 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___brings-in
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (2.40 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (2.70 BB)

Seat 3: xx xx J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises___calls
Seat 4: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls $0.60 (all-in)
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets___raises

[bigredlemon]

I'm not a razz expert but shouldn't 3rd be a value raise?

[CarlosChadha]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a razz expert but shouldn't 3rd be a value raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I definitely have a small edge on 3rd, and against tighter opponents, I'd raise. But, since these guys are so loose, I though I'd pass up on this small edge to keep the pot small to gain an even bigger edge later in the hand.

Carlos

[Andy B]

If your assessment is correct and opponent catches a wheel card on sixth, it's 2:1 in favor of it pairing one of his hole cards. Betting would be EV neutral if you called a raise and the hand ended there. I think I'd probably bet sixth no matter how it came down.

[Andy B]

If they're limping in with Jacks when a notorious lagtard is behind them with a baby in the door, they're probably bad enough that you can extract that value later in the hand too. Raise third.

[CarlosChadha]

[ QUOTE ]
If they're limping in with Jacks when a notorious lagtard is behind them with a baby in the door, they're probably bad enough that you can extract that value later in the hand too. Raise third.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point...except I don't think they are observant to realize that I am a lag tard...or that it it is well know;-)

[Joe Tall]

Expert.

[Micturition Man]

Not raising 3rd is awful and I am sure yet another misapplication of SOR's pot control idea.

The 6th street question is kind of interesting. I don't think he needs a wheel draw because your 3rd street limp will make him assume you have a T or worse down.

I would probably check 6th if he catches a low card below a 9 and you don't improve, or if you improve to a 7 or worse and he apparently improves more.

However if you think he will not semi-bluff and you are going to check-call anyway, you might best off bet-folding if it appears that you will be drawing dead to his raising hands.

[CarlosChadha]

Thanks for the comments. As it turned out, the question was moot because he caught a baby and I caught a seven, and just when I wondered if he was going to CR me, he decided to just donk so I called. He bet the reiver, and I called UI w/ my 7...he spiked a wheel on 6th:-(

[SGspecial]

I have long dreamed of the day when razz would take it's rightful place as King of the Stud forum. TY to Carlos for making my dream come true, and GL in your endevour to conquer this game. I will not be posting for a while as I'll be in LV for the WSOP this weekend, but I will share my tales of woe (or perhaps victory) when I return.

GL all