Overcards

[Jefftrez]

I always seem to misplay and go too far with overcard hands in early position such as AK, AQ, AJs, etc. If there's more than two people in the pot should I just check then see if the pot justifies a call with my outs?

Also let's say you have such overcard hands in late position and there's a lot of people in the pot. If you miss on the flop should you just check it and take the free turn or is it better to try and eliminate some people?

Sorry if this is a previously answered question. Still a donkey trying to learn...

[Niediam]

There are good sections on playing overcards in SSH and Middle Limit Hold'em.

I generally won't bet just overcards on the flop unless I feel there is a real chance that everybody will fold or I think I can get a free card on the turn.

If I raise AQ in EP and get four callers I don't really see a point in betting a J82 flop. But I'd almost always bet if I had two callers and may bet if I had three callers but was in position against passive opponents.

[Guruman]

you really just have to read your situation in both circumstances. Just remember that there are good and bad reasons to bet.

Good reasons:
picking up an inflated pot without showing down
betting the best hand for value

Bad reasons:
initiative
ego
laziness

You'll want to have a rational reason for thinking an unimproved bet into a crowd is a good thing. These situations exist, you just have to be honest with yourself about identifying them.



[/ QUOTE ]
If you raised in ep with a big offsuit ace and got multiple coldcallers, then you'll often just want to check and re-evaluate when you whiff. This tends to include checking and peeling if its one bet back to you in a big pot, checking and raising if a late position player bets and he's known to bet any two when checked to, and checking and folding if you see two bets come back to you.

Evaluate the cleanliness of your outs and your equity in the pot. If two of the guys in position on you have coldcalled with hands like AQ or AJ before you should be less inclined to continue. If they like to coldcall with J5o, then you should be more inclined to continue because pairing up will win it for you more often.

If you limped a big hand from ep then I have no idea what to tell you.



[/ QUOTE ]
if you raised after several people had entered the pot from late position, you're pretty much in the catbird seat for the rest of the hand.

If you raised a bunch of limpers and whiffed on the flop then you should often just check through if it checks to you and evaluate your shot at picking up the pot on the turn. The exception is when you have reason to believe that either A)with a flop bet you can get hu on the turn and have a legit shot at taking it down or showing down a winner UI or B) a worse hand will raise and isolate you. Both of these exceptions can be rare.

The advantage that big cards hold in multiway pots from position is that they get to put lots of $$ in when ahead and get called down by the chasers that caught a smaller piece of the board.



[/ QUOTE ]

Another big diff between multiway pots and hu pots postflop is the fact that you can check-through a street without inducing a bluff as often because the others are still having to bluff out multiple people. This means that you give up much less by checking behind a showdown-worthy hand because you'll be able to make cleaner folds when people bet the next street.

[Hair_of_the_Dog]

Overcards are one the most difficult aspects of HE, I feel. I have, and believe that others, a tendency to count too many outs when considering fold vs. call. I try to remember that overcards have a much higher value if you can add a flush (backdoor or not) or the same type of thing with a strait draw. Overcards by themselves are, in a word, dangerous. Often you hit your draw and still loose the pot...this reminds me that I should re-read the overcards section of SSLHE. I think there is a good section in Theory of Poker too.

[HoneyBadger]

Just assume you need about 11-15:1 to profitably call overcards, maybe 8-9:1 if it has a backdoor draw. Bad overcards are ~3 outs, better ones ~4 and add one or so for a backdoor draw. Obviously hands like AKs with a bdfd, and gutshot are worth more; altough you might have to let go of your ace and king outs as they put straight on the board. So it depends highly on the board. I tend to bet them quicker if there are fewer opponents (2, maybe 3 max), I think they might fold, my overs are better quality, I have position, I would like a free turn card, opponents are passive and unlikely to check-raise or raise. With 3 opponents and no position I rarely bet them UI; with 3 opponents, position, and a decent backdoor draw I probably would.

It also depends on the amount of draws on the board (this is in effect 'thinking they'll fold'). If 2-3 people limp, you raise AKo, they all call, and the flop comes JsTs7h there's little justification in betting if they all check to you. Take your free gutshot. The reason if the amount of draws, and the likelihood of someone limping a J. Pay attention to what common limping hands are, they often contain a Q or a J. Now for a J on this board the correct play is probably a c/r, so beware of that. Furthermore, most limping hands will have picked up some sort of draw and they are unlikely to fold to a single bet. Also notice what happens when the turn is an A or K: with an A you are now badly beaten by KQ, AT, AJ which are very likely hands for limpers calling a flop bet; with a K you are beaten by AQ (less likely limped) and KJ, KT, Q9 which are also likely limping hands. Furthermore, if your Q hits it might be the Qs, or the river might be a spade or an A or K splitting the pot. All in all: not a very good hand. (this is just to illustrate how complicated overs can be, and that only experience will teach you this)

[KitCloudkicker]

just to add...the more opponents you have, the more worthless your overcards are, as it becomes increasingly likely that even if you hit, it makes someone else two pair.

[Hair_of_the_Dog]

[ QUOTE ]
just to add...the more opponents you have, the more worthless your overcards are, as it becomes increasingly likely that even if you hit, it makes someone else two pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. I seem play this way too often.

[Xhad]

http://poker.wikia.com/wiki/MicroLimitLibrary#Overcards