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#1
06-05-2007, 03:44 PM
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Spots where calling with the nuts is correct on the flop?
Ok, I really don't like playing with so many people in omaha. The shorter the better imo, but thats another story. So my reasoning is probably different (way off) from the normal way of thinking for 6max tables.
Reads: was playing HU vs utg when all these guys sat down and ignored us when we asked to play HU. They all seem tight passive players from the few hands. Don't recognize any regs and nobody has been playing agro. PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums) UTG ($79) Hero ($174.55) Button ($90.35) SB ($89) BB ($101.55) Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. UTG calls $1, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $4.5</font>, Button calls $4.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $3.50, UTG calls $3.50. Flop: ($18.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">BB bets $18</font>, UTG raises $42, Hero calls/raises ??? Ok, so heres my question. What spots do you flop very good hand, even the nuts and still only flat call bets on the flop? 
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#2
06-05-2007, 03:58 PM
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Re: Spots where calling with the nuts is correct on the flop?
Exactly spots like this. The nuts on a draw-y flop with no redraws (I'm not considering the two pair a redraw) is a standard (I think) flat-call with the nuts, especially multi-way. If BB 3-bets after you call, I might even fold. It's highly likely at least one opponent could be freerolling against you.
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#3
06-05-2007, 04:10 PM
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Re: Spots where calling with the nuts is correct on the flop?
hmm, that utg minraise sure looks strange. maybe he has 910xx, that would make a bit sense. such a strange spot here... push and hope that bb has kk and minraiser has bs. i think it does not really make a big difference here what you do, even if you call bb might 3 bet all in.
i might occasionally check a big hand in position if its unlikely to be outdrawn and if you have been weak before when checking in position and villains bluffed you off on the turn. also the pot should not be too small.
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#4
06-05-2007, 04:25 PM
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Re: Spots where calling with the nuts is correct on the flop?
FWIW I think calling in this spot (which is what I did) is alot smarter and more profitable than pushing it here. I was thinking alot of people would think it was too weak a play in this spot. Theres def arguements for raising or calling, I personally just think calling outweighs the raising arguements in this spot. Would love to hear some points for both cases, I'll hold off on mine as I don't want to give anything away about this hand =)
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#5
06-05-2007, 04:43 PM
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Re: Spots where calling with the nuts is correct on the flop?
argument for raising would be:
-if one of them has a worse straight we could get it all in vs the other with a decent redraw. -bb might ditch his straight seeing he is splitting at best -both might have straights with no redraw [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] calling obviously allows folding on diamond turns.
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#6
06-06-2007, 12:43 AM
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Re: Spots where calling with the nuts is correct on the flop?
You're not getting called by T9 if you reraise unless your opponents are terrible here. There's really no good reason to raise here at all. This is closer to a fold than a raise IMO. If you knew that BB and UTG were both really nitty, it probably would be a fold since a tight player's never raising this flop without the nuts + a solid redraw, but without solid reads, you're probably best calling and getting all-in on any safe turn.
Edit: Just noticed you do have a 4-out redraw to a boat. I still wouldn't raise here, but it does mean that I'd pretty much never be able to lay this down no matter what my reads are.
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#7
06-06-2007, 01:15 AM
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Re: Spots where calling with the nuts is correct on the flop?
Typically, a bare straight on this board, without the draw to the boat, necessitates the call/fold. Assuming, that one has at least the straight and the other a substantial hand. You guys aren't that deep and have no substantial reads. So it isn't fair to assume the bb doesn't have the sucker straight. Also, it's very likely you are freerolling someone with a straight here. I shove this right away and think you guys are pussies for thinking otherwise.
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#8
06-06-2007, 01:23 AM
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Re: Spots where calling with the nuts is correct on the flop?
Meh, with bottom 2 you can also be freerolling them.
I'll get it in in this spot on the flop. However, if it was just the bare straight without the 2pr redraw then Im definitely seeing a turn card.
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#9
06-06-2007, 05:09 PM
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Re: Spots where calling with the nuts is correct on the flop?
[ QUOTE ]
Exactly spots like this. The nuts on a draw-y flop with no redraws (I'm not considering the two pair a redraw) is a standard (I think) flat-call with the nuts, especially multi-way. If BB 3-bets after you call, I might even fold. It's highly likely at least one opponent could be freerolling against you. [/ QUOTE ] Is this serious or am i being leveled? nuts with two pair fold to a 3 bet? lolololol [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
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#10
06-06-2007, 06:06 PM
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Re: Spots where calling with the nuts is correct on the flop?
What type of hands do you think you are getting action against? Define for me a logical hand-range for each opponent. Is it not entirely likely that one has AJ+FD and one has a set? If that's true, you're drawing to a chop. No thanks.
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