300NL 2 live hands shortstacked

Semtex · #1 05-30-2007, 08:18 AM

I just made my first trip to Commerce. The 2/3 game is capped at $100. I don't know how shortstackers do it, because I was lost in a few hands. Here were some highlights. These hands happened in the first couple orbits so I didn't really have reads, but in general the players were aggressive/bad:

I have ~$150. A few limpers and I limp in MP with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Lots of limpers behind and the flop came 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. Checked to me and I bet $15 into a $21 pot. Guy to my left, who probably has $150-200 and is not very good calls. It folds around to one of the initial checkers who goes all in for his last $40 or so. I go all in for my $130 or so. Terrible?

So I lost that hand, rebuy for $100 (I didn't know you could rebuy for 1.5 times the initial buy in if you bust, that information would have been key), lose with pocket kings against QJ, and rebuy again. I get 10[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]10[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG, make it $10 and get 4 callers (raise more maybe, or just limp??). Flop comes 9-7-7 rainbow and I bet $30. Some chick who has me covered min-raises to $60. Everyone folds. Its $30 for me to call into a ~$150 pot and I have $60 behind. Its obviously push/fold, but which one??

Black Aces 518 · #2 05-30-2007, 10:06 AM

I'm not a giant fan of the K5s limp in MP. You are only 50BB deep, I think you need deeper stacks to make this work. As played, I think the flop is good.

On the TT hand, do you have any info on the minraiser? Her history would be nice. Some people wouldn't raise this board without an overpair or a 7, in which case you're toast. Some would raise with any pp or a 9, or b/c you are the PFR and likely don't like a 977 flop. Which camp she is in defines your action. You basically have to put in 60 to win 180, so it would be hard to fold an overpair this shallow readless.

Vegetarian · #3 05-30-2007, 10:24 AM

I don't like the limp w K5, but you played the rest of the hand well.

2nd hand I would raise to like 15 PF and shove over her min raise. Iv'e just seen people do this with so many hands live I don't like folding with that much already in the pot.

Gordon Scott · #4 05-30-2007, 10:58 AM

A push is fine in hand one but I would call and try to get Mr "not very good" to call. With that many outs if we miss the turn we can still block bet and call a push. If we miss the river we're not all in and we can decide if we want to try and steal the side pot from Mr "not very good" who may have 88 or some crap.

Hand two raise it to 15 or 18 PF depending on how many players are cold calling raises. It feels like a push but its read dependent to me. I think she shows up with A9 and JJ more than 7x.

GS

effang · #5 05-30-2007, 11:19 AM

why did you shove in hand 1? you have no FE, and now you're just calling w/ a draw. there is no sidepot yet, build one...

Landlord79 · #6 05-30-2007, 11:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a giant fan of the K5s limp in MP. You are only 50BB deep, I think you need deeper stacks to make this work. As played, I think the flop is good.

On the TT hand, do you have any info on the minraiser? Her history would be nice. Some people wouldn't raise this board without an overpair or a 7, in which case you're toast. Some would raise with any pp or a 9, or b/c you are the PFR and likely don't like a 977 flop. Which camp she is in defines your action. You basically have to put in 60 to win 180, so it would be hard to fold an overpair this shallow readless.

[/ QUOTE ]
QFT

Black Aces 518 · #7 05-30-2007, 12:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
why did you shove in hand 1? you have no FE, and now you're just calling w/ a draw. there is no sidepot yet, build one...

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? he has FE, the "not so good" guy still has to call another $100 or so. This isolates his dead money in the pot. Also, there are times where the "not so good" guy has KQ or some crap, and calls the add'l $25 when you don't shove, shoving yourself frees your K as a potential out against shorty who could have anything. Or shorty could even have something like QdJd. Getting the other guy to fold 77 or AK or whatever is HUGE in that scenario.

effang · #8 05-30-2007, 12:43 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
why did you shove in hand 1? you have no FE, and now you're just calling w/ a draw. there is no sidepot yet, build one...

[/ QUOTE ]

huh? he has FE, the "not so good" guy still has to call another $100 or so. This isolates his dead money in the pot. Also, there are times where the "not so good" guy has KQ or some crap, and calls the add'l $25 when you don't shove, shoving yourself frees your K as a potential out against shorty who could have anything. Or shorty could even have something like QdJd. Getting the other guy to fold 77 or AK or whatever is HUGE in that scenario.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, so you're staying against somebody that shoved all in into a 5 way pot that has been bet, and smooth called...and that the shover can't beat k high?

by reraising all in, yes, you're folding out a lot of better hands. but isn't this usually what a made hand plays? shoving so drawing hands are priced out? if we're already on a drawing hand, don't we want more money in the pot so that we have both better implied/expressed odds?

by shoving over the shorty, you're playing heads up against a made hand. that's not exactly the best deal out there...

am i completely off? let me know.

Black Aces 518 · #9 05-30-2007, 12:50 PM

if the guy wasn't so short already, i would agree with you, but he has to shove any str8 or flush draw that he might have. he has $40. it's $15 to him and the pot is over $50.

Another benefit to shoving is that it's gonna suck if the turn bricks and "not so good" jams.

Also, in situations where king hi isn't currently the best hand, you still may clean up outs.

I don't think the shove is super-duper mandatory, but I think it's a good play.

effang · #10 05-30-2007, 01:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if the guy wasn't so short already, i would agree with you, but he has to shove any str8 or flush draw that he might have. he has $40. it's $15 to him and the pot is over $50.

Another benefit to shoving is that it's gonna suck if the turn bricks and "not so good" jams.

Also, in situations where king hi isn't currently the best hand, you still may clean up outs.

I don't think the shove is super-duper mandatory, but I think it's a good play.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, i think we're on the same page. you're saying he's so short and the pot is so big, that if he were to call w/ any draw, as a shorty he should get it in anyways.

i can see that, and in that sense, if you think k high is good, then this should be fine.

personally, i'm much more excited about brining in another player. if the turn bricks, and seeing how this is a "bad player", i'm pretty confident i can manipulate the pot to give me the odds i need to see one more card, especially given that i'm on a straight/FD combo draw.

if i think he's aggressive at all, i'm not going to c/f the turn. i'll probably block it, or shove myself (shove myself is probably best, unless the cold caller is an uber donkey)