AA/AK 3bets OOP - I get floated on flop - standard turn decision time

[cs3]

<font color="blue"> these 2 hands are very common spots i think, and they illustrate why being out of position sucks. once villain flat calls the flop we must decide right there whether or not we are playing for stacks, correct?
does the turn card even matter in either spot?
-if we bet we're obv commited.
-if we check adn villain bets folding is rediculously nitty but calling is lame too.
-if we try ch/r, villain usually checks his draws and weaker made hands, but is often pushing both his monsters and garbage that he floated flop with.

so with 100BB stacks is it best to just always (with very very few exceptions for the really nasty boards) play for stacks in rerasied pots when we flop an overpair with AA/KK or TPTK with AK???

please discuss </font>

************************ HAND 1 ********************

<font color="blue"> villain is relativly unknown. seems decent so far. havent seen him do anything stupid. has tried to steal when on the button most times its been folded to him, but so far he hasnt called any of my 3 bets. runnning 25/15 over small sample </font>

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
5 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $120.90
CO: $286.35
Button: $149.65
HERO: $115.85
BB: $78.50

Pre-flop: (5 players) HERO is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">CO raises to $4</font>, Button folds, <font color="#cc0000">HERO raises to $14</font>, BB folds, CO calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($29, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">HERO bets $20</font>, CO calls.

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($69, 2 players)
<font color="blue"> whats the plan? why? </font>



*********************** Hand 2 ******************

<font color="blue"> villain is a regular multitabling TAG and has pretty big stacks on most of his tables. extremely nitty over 600 hands or so ive played with - running 12/10. very aggro post flop - flop aggr fator = 3, turn = 5, river = oo </font>

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $129
UTG+1: $70.05
CO: $102.55
Button: $50.45
HERO: $103
BB: $59.90

Pre-flop: (6 players) HERO is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">UTG raises to $4</font>, 3 folds, <font color="#cc0000">HERO raises to $14</font>, BB folds, UTG calls.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($29, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">HERO bets $20</font>, UTG calls.
<font color="blue"> this board is not so hot. </font>

Turn: 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($69, 2 players)
<font color="blue"> very similar spot as in hand (even same turn card wtf)
so what are we doing here?
am i ever getting paid off by worse on this board if i bet turn?</font>



do we play these 2 hands any differently vs complete unknowns?

[Panthro]

I generally mix it up between bet/calling and CRAI (reads are relevant here). I'm usually stacking off in both hands without thinking too much about it.

[cs3]

we can never ever bet/fold for any amount on the turn, correct? (assuming ~100bb stacks)

if we get psuhed over on the flop are we folding in either hand?

[Panthro]

[ QUOTE ]

if we get psuhed over on the flop are we folding in either hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

1. no. XYdd and Kx hands are in his range.

2. errr, maybe. tough spot given he's so nitty, and I don't think this type of multitabling nit will turn QQ/TT/99/etc into a bluff.

[tuuufts]

[ QUOTE ]
we can never ever bet/fold for any amount on the turn, correct? (assuming ~100bb stacks)

if we get psuhed over on the flop are we folding in either hand?

[/ QUOTE ]]

I'm certainly not folding in either of these spots.

[cs3]

maybe i should be checking the flop in these spots more often? (mostly to get more valuefrom worse)
but are we ever getting away even if we check the flop?


HAND 2: how bad would ch/fold turn be, given the guy is a complete nit?

[orange]

shove both. very often will you see either a hand that will peel one street and not payoff anyways (ie. like QQ) or sometimes a weakly played draw. why let them see for free.

check/raising these flops is okay as well sometimes.

[gimmetheloot]

[ QUOTE ]
shove both. very often will you see either a hand that will peel one street and not payoff anyways (ie. like QQ) or sometimes a weakly played draw. why let them see for free.

check/raising these flops is okay as well sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

100% spot on IMO.

[cs3]

ok i jsut wanted to see if getting it in on these boars nearly always was a leak, but it looks like everyone plays it about how i did.

Hand 1
i bet 44 on turn, villain shoves.
I call and he flips 88. miss river and MHING

Hand 2
i bet 44 again he tanks and shoves.
drk_sde: im gonna puke if you have jj
wastedtalent: lol
i call (after puking and throwing my mouse across the room) and he tables JJ MHING


i really think i couldve safely Ch/folded the turn vs a villain as nitty as the guy in hand 2. His flop range is exactly KK, JJ, and AK. thats it.
i doubt he bets turn with AK if i check to him. but that would be pretty nitty of me and i dont think i could ever play AA that weakly...

[$upermad4it]

[ QUOTE ]

shove both. very often will you see either a hand that will peel one street and not payoff anyways (ie. like QQ) or sometimes a weakly played draw. why let them see for free.


[/ QUOTE ]

Shove both when? On the turn?