How to stop the suckouts

JH1 · #1 05-23-2007, 03:32 PM

Just wondering how I can limit the damage done by suckouts. I don't give them pot odds, and I never call when I know they've sucked out so they aren't getting implied odds from me. I'm trying out Full Tilt because Party is getting frustrating for me with too many donks sucking out. So far Full Tilt is more continuation at 25NL. I'm on a doomswitch this week it seems according to my graph. For instance, my 3rd hand on Full Tilt today I get dealt AA and the board comes K73r. I put in a PSB on the flop and some 55/35/5 jackass comes over the top by 5X, so I figure classic SAD and push. This seems to be constant no matter what site I play on this week (UB, Party, and now FT).

He thinks for about 5 minutes and then calls me with pocket tens, which of course trips out on the river. He says "I thought you were making a move." I know this is BBV, but what do you do when your BR is dwindling because of it. I know in the long run it's good to have these players, but you can't get a decent BR going in the short run.

My BR is taking a huge hit against these players the past couple of days (1/2 of it), at what point do I just give it up and donk away my money like the rest of them?

Jeff76 · #2 05-23-2007, 03:37 PM

The best way to avoid suckouts is to always get in with the worst hand. However, being as our goal is to win money, that is not an advisable strategy.

The suckouts are what make poker profitable. If wrong plays weren't rewarded (or even seldom rewarded), then bad players wouldn't keep playing.

It's frustrating to go through a long string of suckouts, but it happens to everyone. Just make sure that the suckouts don't start causing you to play bad, and don't label poor play on your part as a scukout (not singling you out or accusing you of anything- I just know I've done it before).

Wilco666 · #3 05-23-2007, 03:40 PM

What you need in the short term:
- Discipline
- Adequate bankroll management
- Understanding that being sucked out on is GOOD.

The long term will take care of itself if you make better decisions than your opponents.

sputum · #4 05-23-2007, 03:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Just wondering how I can limit the damage done by suckouts. I don't give them pot odds, and I never call when I know they've sucked out so they aren't getting implied odds from me. I'm trying out Full Tilt because Party is getting frustrating for me with too many donks sucking out. So far Full Tilt is more continuation at 25NL. I'm on a doomswitch this week it seems according to my graph. For instance, my 3rd hand on Full Tilt today I get dealt AA and the board comes K73r. I put in a PSB on the flop and some 55/35/5 jackass comes over the top by 5X, so I figure classic SAD and push. This seems to be constant no matter what site I play on this week (UB, Party, and now FT).

He thinks for about 5 minutes and then calls me with pocket tens, which of course trips out on the river. He says "I thought you were making a move." I know this is BBV, but what do you do when your BR is dwindling because of it. I know in the long run it's good to have these players, but you can't get a decent BR going in the short run.

My BR is taking a huge hit against these players the past couple of days (1/2 of it), at what point do I just give it up and donk away my money like the rest of them?

[/ QUOTE ]

People sucking out against you is GOOD as it means you are getting it in with the best of it. But I expect you know this.
This kind of thing is the reason for 20 BI+ bankrolls.
It is always worth considering if something in your play is not quite right - that goes doubleplus if you do not have a long history of winning at the stakes you're playing.
Post hands you're unsure of in the micro NL forum. Not anything as simple as your example hand of course, but I bet they're not all like that [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

7n7 · #5 05-23-2007, 04:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]

My BR is taking a huge hit against these players the past couple of days (1/2 of it), at what point do I just give it up and donk away my money like the rest of them?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why on earth would you even consider this?

Put these people on your must sit with list immediately. They are exactly the type players you want at your table. Poker is about the long run, not the short.

If it weren't for the element of luck in this game, there'd be no miracles. With no miracles, the bad players would go broke and give up. With no bad players, we'd be left with good (or better) players. With good or better players, we don't win as much. Etc., etc.

Stick it out, the cards even out over time.

Word of caution: please don't adopt the mentality, "I should move up in stakes where they respect my bets a little more."

It's fool's reasoning. If you can't beat the really bad players, there's no reason to believe you can beat the better ones.

Also, when someone puts a bad beat on you, recall a time where you did the same. We've all gotten lucky from time to time. Our minds allow us to recall the ones that went against us much more vividly than the ones where we sucked out.

JH1 · #6 05-23-2007, 04:42 PM

Hey, thanks for the advice everyone. I just want to clarify that I have no intention of donking away my money, that was the tilt induced from that last pocket aces hand that I posted that was talking.

I know that it's good for people to suck out on me, and I have a lot of them on my 'buddy' list and have managed to get my stack back from several of them.

I guess I was more asking how to stop the doomswitch. What methods do you guys use? Quit for a week and just read up on theory, move down, etc.? Any advice is much appreciated.

7n7 · #7 05-23-2007, 04:53 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I guess I was more asking how to stop the doomswitch. What methods do you guys use? Quit for a week and just read up on theory, move down, etc.? Any advice is much appreciated.

[/ QUOTE ]

If the suck-outs are affecting your play, then by all means, take a break. Read, exercise, whatever. Tilt doesn't go away just b/c you move down a level. You'd actually be likely to start playing a little looser since "it's cheaper."

Do whatever relaxes you and come back when you're ready. There will always be a game going.

I do know those that switch games when they run bad at one, but there's a big difference between running bad and tilting. You're tilting.

One of the better things I've ever read is that tilt takes many shapes and forms. It doesn't have to be anger, smash your keyboard-type behavior. Any time you play a hand incorrectly because of external or outside influences (fatigue, anger, drunk, stress, etc.), it's a form of tilt.

ATM · #8 05-23-2007, 05:28 PM

Im not a good enough player to give you advise about things but i'll try my best
1. full tilt is donk capital (i have been to other sites and not seen anything as bad as the .5 .10/.10 .25 games on full tilt)
2. I know people are saying its good to be sucked out on and yes it is but as my last computer knows it wasnt to funny lol make sure that you do not attack your pc its not its fault
3.maybe you should stop for a week or so to get your head clear then go on and take another shot

I know its frustrating but its poker and there right its good but I think you just have to keep at it because luck is only temporary but skill is permanent

just thought id drop in this story it was what happened when I used to let bad beats effect me but ive got my tilt under control now

Full tilt sit n go $5.50 back when i used to play them. 3 people left Im on the button with pocket nines low stacked I move all in SB folds BB writes in chat "Im feeling Lucky" and calls with Queen 5 off lol im thinking great im about to double up the flop comes 772 im still thinking good turn comes 7 river comes 7 giving him 4 of a kind queen high and myself 4 of a kind 9 high. After that beat I threw my PC out of my bedroom window lol I know childish. But i have my tilt under control now.

So make sure you dont let this string of bad beats effect you and make sure you dont take it out on your computer

Sean Fraley · #9 05-23-2007, 05:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
One of the better things I've ever read is that tilt takes many shapes and forms. It doesn't have to be anger, smash your keyboard-type behavior. Any time you play a hand incorrectly because of external or outside influences (fatigue, anger, drunk, stress, etc.), it's a form of tilt.

[/ QUOTE ]

I once read an article on another site that described tilt as an emotional state induced by the play or result of a previous hand that affects the manner in which you are playing the current one. Best description ever. It doesn't even have to be anger. Feeling like you are on a card rush can be tilt too.

JH1 · #10 05-23-2007, 05:51 PM

Thanks 7n7 and ATM. I think I may take a break of at least a couple days. ATM, from the 500 hands I played on Full Tilt (I know, small sample) there is a huge differnce between that site and Party. Party is simply full of fish/calling stations. Full Tilt is full of true donks. I thought someone was a donk on Party at 35/25/8 and the majority were somewhere around 25/8/1, but the table average that I played at on FT was 40/25/4 (played on 5 different tables).

As an aside, I think my table selection could use some improvement. On Party, I tried looking for the average pot sizes and maybe 30-40% VP$IP so that I could get some action, but didn't want to sit with a table full of LAGs.

I start off playing quite TAG 18/14. Then after a couple of big hands I'll start to loosen up a bit PF to maybe 25/18, but not postflop and only after at least doubling up. This seems to pay off for me when I hit a weird hand later on after around 100-150 hands in, because villains typically think I'm holding at least AK after not raising as much early on.