$11+1 FT 2 situations I am not in very often

SayGN · #1 05-20-2007, 01:42 AM

These situations don't happen very often, but I am curious as to how they should be played.

Hand 1: No reads, did I play this right? (I'm going to ask that you don't say "fold pf" on this one)

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t20/t40
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t1718
UTG+1: t1440
MP1: t1500
MP2: t1732
MP3: t1320
Hero: t1455
Button: t1455
SB: t1380
BB: t1500

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is CO with 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls t40 (pot was t60), MP1 folds, MP2 calls t40 (pot was t100), MP3 calls t40 (pot was t140), Hero calls t40 (pot was t180), Button folds, SB calls t20 (pot was t220), BB checks.

Flop: 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t240, 6 players)
SB bets t160, BB folds, UTG+1 calls t160 (pot was t400), MP2 calls t160 (pot was t560), MP3 calls t160 (pot was t720), Hero raises to t400, SB calls t240 (pot was t1280), UTG+1 calls t240 (pot was t1520), MP2 calls t240 (pot was t1760), MP3 calls t240 (pot was t2000).

Turn: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t2240, 5 players)
SB is all-in t940, UTG+1 raises all-in t1000, MP2 calls t1000 (pot was t4180), MP3 folds, Hero folds.

River: A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (t5180, 1 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: t5060, Sidepot 1: t120)

Results:
Final pot: t5180

Hand 2: This one is really only interesting because of my chip stack compared to the rest of the players. My read on the big stack is that, when folded to him, he has limped from the SB to me for the last 10 orbits or so. Post flop, he plays passively, occasionally calling down and folding on the river. He has yet to show any aggression but he seems to be limping with everything. My guess is that I should have just called his riverbet, but you be the judge.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t100/t200
4 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t1496
Button: t2430
SB: t6181
Hero: t3393

Pre-flop: (4 players) Hero is BB with 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
2 folds, SB calls t100 (pot was t300), Hero checks.

Flop: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t400, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (t400, 2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks.

River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (t400, 2 players)
SB bets t400, Hero raises to t1200, SB raises to t4200, Hero calls all-in t1993.
Uncalled bets: t1007 returned to SB.

Results:
Final pot: t6786

Heavens_Myst · #2 05-20-2007, 02:24 AM

hand 1, as played, fold flop, you have two pair in a multiway pot where everyone has called a 2/3 bet, you're most likely behind at this point. don't bleed chips here. higher 2pair, straight, set, and possible overpair which could counterfit twopair later in the hand. If you really thought you were good, just push

hand 2, hes probably got the flush but i go broke here.

Kevin8423 · #3 05-20-2007, 02:48 AM

Hand 1 I fold pf, but as played I probably just shove over. There is a ton of dead money and you really have no idea where you are. I like to avoid this type of spot by folding pf but once you get here I think its profitable to just get it in.

Hand 2 I probably just call his 400, but its probably fine to shove over it also.

BadBeatsCrewDerk · #4 05-20-2007, 02:53 AM

Hand 1, fold pre. If you're around on that flop, just go ahead and push. Maybe if it's monotone you can find a fold there, or if the action is a lot heavier in front of you. By the time it gets to you on the flop, you want the pot or you don't, so it's push or fold I think.

The second hand, sure it's ok to go broke. I'd just minraise the river though.

holdem17 · #5 05-20-2007, 03:26 AM

Hand 1: Fold preflop. As played I raising to 400 gives great odds to call for all of them. I think it would also be pretty hard for you to be winning this hand here also. Too many to see the flop and already call a bet on the flop.

Hand 2: Just call the 400. Not worth raising and having to call a re-raise and possibly bubble.

Jago · #6 05-20-2007, 03:31 AM

Hand 1: shove the flop

Hand 2: shove the river

Minraising is a poor play 99.9999999999% of the time

JadeRedstone · #7 05-20-2007, 10:58 AM

I used to be very tight S&G player and never played SC. But now that I play more cash games - why do we fold 79s in a family pot?

TwistedEcho · #8 05-20-2007, 01:51 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I used to be very tight S&G player and never played SC. But now that I play more cash games - why do we fold 79s in a family pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

because we can't top up our stack everytime we miss the flop, or flop a draw and it never gets there. Chips are too valuable to lose whereas in a cashgame you just reload every hand you lose money.

IcemanDan · #9 05-20-2007, 02:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I used to be very tight S&G player and never played SC. But now that I play more cash games - why do we fold 79s in a family pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

because we can't top up our stack everytime we miss the flop, or flop a draw and it never gets there. Chips are too valuable to lose whereas in a cashgame you just reload every hand you lose money.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think it's not justified to call from CO with suited connectors when the blinds are that low and so many other people have limped in?

To me this seems to be the perfect situation to sneak in cheaply with a hand that's usually easy to get away from when you miss and will win you a huge pot when you connect.

And if you're going to say that this hand is an example of why you don't want to play 97s (ever? considering that if there's ever a situation for playing suited connectors, this is it), what's the difference between this and calling with KJs and then facing a flop of KQJ?

Forgive me if I'm missing something, as I recently switched from playing mainly cash games to SnGs.

TwistedEcho · #10 05-20-2007, 03:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I used to be very tight S&G player and never played SC. But now that I play more cash games - why do we fold 79s in a family pot?

[/ QUOTE ]

because we can't top up our stack everytime we miss the flop, or flop a draw and it never gets there. Chips are too valuable to lose whereas in a cashgame you just reload every hand you lose money.

[/ QUOTE ]

You really think it's not justified to call from CO with suited connectors when the blinds are that low and so many other people have limped in?

To me this seems to be the perfect situation to sneak in cheaply with a hand that's usually easy to get away from when you miss and will win you a huge pot when you connect.

And if you're going to say that this hand is an example of why you don't want to play 97s (ever? considering that if there's ever a situation for playing suited connectors, this is it), what's the difference between this and calling with KJs and then facing a flop of KQJ?

Forgive me if I'm missing something, as I recently switched from playing mainly cash games to SnGs.

[/ QUOTE ]

It probably doesn't make much difference if you limp/fold, but when the flop comes AhTh3x or 943r or 863 you have no idea where you are at, you have to invest chips to chase a draw/because you have a weak top pair and you just get into lame spots.

Also im usually multitabling, so the less really marginal spots, the better. If i was one tabling or 4 tabling i would be more happy to limp here.

Also KJs on a K62 board is much stronger than 97 on a 962 board, that should be pretty obvious, and when you flop a flush with KJs instead of 97s its much less vunerable to a 4th card of the suit hitting, and also you'll lose less to overflushes.

Same with two pair hands, the bigger your two pair the better chance of it winning, since your likely to be vs more overpairs on a 973 board in a limped pot than KJ3, and also its less likely someone has a set on the KJ3 board etc.

So basically bigger cards are better, but it probably doesn't matter. If there are tons of limpers and they all suck then limping behind is fine, but folding is also fine and makes the hand much easier