Did I play this wrong?

[flavius]

Right after I lose with AA24 to A233 on the river i get dealt this hand. I think i played it perfect, regardless I don't even get half the pot I lose the whole thing.

Poker Stars
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.25/$0.50
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) cyan1de is MP1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
2 folds, cyan1de calls, MP2 calls, 2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises to $2.75</font>, 2 folds, cyan1de calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($9, 3 players)
cyan1de checks, MP2 checks, <font color="#cc0000">Button bets $4.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">cyan1de raises to $22.05</font>, MP2 folds, <font color="#cc0000">Button raises all-in $46.5</font>, <font color="#cc0000">cyan1de calls all-in $20.45</font>.
Uncalled bets: $4 returned to Button.

Turn: K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] ($94, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $94)


River: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] ($94, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $94)


Results:
Final pot: $94

Button: Ac 3h 2c 5s

[IcarusJam]

I'm new to Omaha/8, but i think he is screaming a set of 8's or 9's. Since your drawing to a nut flush, and maybe a backdoor straight, or backdoor spade flush. I think this is a flip and you lost it. Another thing is you were playing a great hi hand on a great hi board. I would reccomend playing hands that hit both from what i know. Input or comments accepted.

[Rush17]

Yeah, after the flop, I like your hand...but it's not as if either one of you had any control over the betting at that point(although I'm sure you'd get him to committ his stack anyway with his nut low draw).

I do not committ my whole stack with a high-only hand before the flop (especially with a deeper stack) just as I would not committ my whole stack with an A--5 high. And that's not to say that a suited A235 isn't a good hand (it's a very good hand), but I'd still want to see the flop first before pushing ALL of my chips to the center. This hand is toast on an all-high board unless he hits a flush, and your hand is in the same boat, too. If your stack is on the shorter side and you want to push, do it with AAxx.

Preflop, I can see a raise being made by either one of your hands, but you only hurt yourself when you push all in(and he does the same)because you have removed all skill factor (ie; it doesn't give you the chance to make feeler bets...it doesn't give you the chance to trap...it doesn't give you the chance to maneuver the pot...it doesn't give your opponent a chance to fold[and that includes the time that he folds a better hand, too]....it doesn't give you the chance to bluff, and it doesn't give you the chance to fold).

[flavius]

Well it wasn't a flip, he had a 2.2% chance to scoop. 76% to make his low.

[SamC489]

i like it, you have a multitude of scoop cards, you just didnt hit any of them.

[bbartlog]

As you probably know, you were a 56% equity favorite on the flop (and about 55% versus the whole range of A23x he could have), so getting it all in was a decent move, EV + $5 and change. So you can't say you misplayed it totally.
But let's see what happens if you just call opponent's flop bet. Pot is $18 to the turn. There are 21 cards that are good for opponent (all cards 2-7 not already in his hand) and 20 that are good for us (all the rest). But here is a critical point: almost every card that is good for opponent still leaves us with odds to call a pot-sized bet, while every card that is good for us leaves opponent without those odds. Our equity when a low card falls is still 41% overall, while opponent's equity when one of our cards comes is only 26%.
Of course this doesn't account for the possibility that opponent might bluff us out of the pot if the board pairs or something. But playing it in a straightforward fashion:

20/41 - we pot turn, opponent doesn't have odds to draw and folds. EV +$8.80
21/41 - opponent pots turn. We assume opponent has A23L, and will fold if the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], or 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] fall (opponent now is assumed to have two pair plus low and we don't have a double flush redraw to give us odds to call). In actuality we should also fold for some other cards but let's assume we don't know what they are.
3/41: fold, EV -$1.32
18/41: call, fade the freeroll or try to redraw if opponent has made two pair: Ev -$1.59

On the face of it, this is slightly better than getting it all in on the flop. But this line still leaves the possibility that you will make a mistake on the river, as you will not be all-in and will have trouble seeing whether opponent has a better high than you when he bets his low.

So the *ideal* here would be to reach the turn with the size of the pot equal to what was left in your stack; had it been possible to bet in such a way that the pot was $30 going to the turn, your expectation would have been upwards of $9, which is significantly better than the $5-6 you expected by getting it all in on the flop. But from the betting I'm not clear on whether it would have been possible to spike the pot this way.

[bbartlog]

I'm new to Omaha/8, but i think he is screaming a set of 8's or 9's.

Unless opponent is a donk, there are very few hands containing 88 or 99 that he will pot preflop with. AAxx and A23x or perhaps A24x are the likeliest holdings, and with one other preflop caller and an ace on the flop I think we would have to lean very strongly towards A23/4x.

[niss]

I think you're also missing the possibility that MP2 will call if OP just calls rather than raises. Given OP's numerous nut draws, this might make calling even more preferred, but that's off the top of my head.

[flavius]

I can see how calling on the flop and leading out on the the turn could be a better play. He did go into his time bank before going allin so he had contemplated folding on the flop. It would have been difficult for me to lead out on the turn though if an 8,9 or K hit. I was confident he was SB his low draw, but a K could be in his hand of A23X A24X etc. Which would lead me to calling instead of properly betting the turn. Leaves room for the possibility of me getting bluffed out of the pot on the river to one of his blanks if he bets it correctly.

I dont know though, should I just commit myself to betting the turn regardless as long as a little one doesnt come off?

[Rush17]

whoops! I totally misread this post, I thought you were both all in before the flop.