2 pair w/ 3-flush

smarterthanyoda · #1 05-12-2007, 01:19 AM

Playing live 3/6. Villain 1 (MP) is a calling station. Villain 2 (button) had just sat down. He was young and seemed more aware than the average 3/6 player.

Preflop:
I have 42o in BB.
6 callers, I check.

Flop (6 sb): J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
LAG to my left bets, 4 calls, I call.

Turn (6 BB): 4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
I bet and the 2 villains call.

River (9 BB): blank

Was my turn bet too aggressive? What line do I take with this river?

ProfessorBen · #2 05-12-2007, 01:29 AM

If you have the 2c, flop and turn are fine; bet the river.

If you don't, fold the flop. 2 of your 5 outs aren't clean and need to be discounted and can give your opponents a redraw at best. Even when you hit on the turn, your opponents can still spike a club on the river. Non-club 2's aren't clean either due to the presence of a bigger kicker. This might actually be a fold flop even with the 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] for all these reasons.

smarterthanyoda · #3 05-12-2007, 01:34 AM

Oh yeah, I did have 2c FWIW.

Harv72b · #4 05-12-2007, 01:46 AM

I routinely fold this on the flop, even getting such great odds, simply because the only card I really want to see on the turn is another 2 and even then it's likely that someone has a strong draw to beat me. The fact that you're closing the action makes it better, and I'll admit that in a live game where I don't have the option of playing a hand on another table or surfing thru pron after I fold, I'd probably be more tempted to make the call.

Good bet on the turn, whether you can call a raise or not depends on the action.

I'd go ahead and bet/fold on the river.

Scarmiglio · #5 05-12-2007, 03:19 AM

Fold the flop. This is one of those situations where catching a card just costs you more money. Someone going to catch their flush or bigger 2 pair or the board will pair the Jack or the Six and kill your hand. When I have 42o in the BB I'm looking for 53 on the flop or flopped 2-pair or better.

ProfessorBen · #6 05-12-2007, 05:16 AM

Harv: I'd rather see a non-club 4 than a non-club 2. We disagree, who is right?

Also, I know we have all these things working against us, but considering how weak the game is I think a call is right if you know how to play the tough spots and know that the table is weak enough that you can bet/fold with impunity. Obviously, the one problem is that if you do so on the turn, you will often get close to enough odds to call for your boat.

StrictlyStrategy · #7 05-12-2007, 05:33 AM

I call the flop here but I'll usually fold if just two or three people call, I think it's pretty close.

Why are you thinking of not betting this river?

Harv72b · #8 05-12-2007, 06:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Harv: I'd rather see a non-club 4 than a non-club 2. We disagree, who is right?

[/ QUOTE ]

If there's one thing I hate having, it's bottom two pair after a drawy flop on a table full of people that are never folding anything.

invictus33 · #9 05-12-2007, 06:58 AM

When I have bottom pair and no kicker and it's bet to me on the flop it's almost an insta fold. Then again, I play online mostly so I've got two or three other tables open and I tend to drop marginal hands when calling stations are betting at me.

B/f the river looks like the best course here.

ProfessorBen · #10 05-12-2007, 11:17 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Harv: I'd rather see a non-club 4 than a non-club 2. We disagree, who is right?

[/ QUOTE ]

If there's one thing I hate having, it's bottom two pair after a drawy flop on a table full of people that are never folding anything.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess the difference is that if I have bottom 2, I'm more likely to be good on the turn than if a 2 came. However, it also adds 6 more cards(6,J) to the half of the deck that I already don't want to see come on the river. Sucks both ways. Pick your poison.