How important is Math and SHHE?

[maka2184]

Just to make sure this isn't just a retarded question asking how important it is to calculate pot odds etc. As you play higher stakes, metagame consideration and the players become much more important to the point where hands are played much more differently.

Now, how important does understanding Math become as you play in these stakes? What I mean is when you're playing do you calculate pot equity, fold equity, whether the play is mathematically +EV based on HUD statistics and recent/past history?

Maybe this is a foolish question that doesn't belong in this forum but I realized I rarely try to get the exact mathematical numbers when I'm playing. Based on tracker and HUD statistics you can make general assumption on certain mathematical considerations, but I never do the entire calculations in my head to figure things out. I'm sure very few are mathematical geniuses where they can multi table and figure out exact numbers in their head, or do you become that good as you become accustomed to high level play? Or do you make generalizations as well, and if so what kind of mathematical aspects of poker do you take into consideration as you play each hand?

[emerson]

[ QUOTE ]
Just to make sure this isn't just a retarded question asking how important it is to calculate pot odds etc. As you play higher stakes, metagame consideration and the players become much more important to the point where hands are played much more differently.

Now, how important does understanding Math become as you play in these stakes? What I mean is when you're playing do you calculate pot equity, fold equity, whether the play is mathematically +EV based on HUD statistics and recent/past history?

Maybe this is a foolish question that doesn't belong in this forum but I realized I rarely try to get the exact mathematical numbers when I'm playing. Based on tracker and HUD statistics you can make general assumption on certain mathematical considerations, but I never do the entire calculations in my head to figure things out. I'm sure very few are mathematical geniuses where they can multi table and figure out exact numbers in their head, or do you become that good as you become accustomed to high level play? Or do you make generalizations as well, and if so what kind of mathematical aspects of poker do you take into consideration as you play each hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

You only do calculations for a short time. Then you see the same situations over and over. The math generally indicates when it is a no brainer. When it is close you rely on other factors.

[daryn]

i thought it was the opposite basically.. you see the same situations over and over and get a feel for them, so most are no brainers. when it's close you rely on math.

[johnnyrocket]

[ QUOTE ]
i thought it was the opposite basically.. you see the same situations over and over and get a feel for them, so most are no brainers. when it's close you rely on math.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea this is spot on, u see every spot and kno how to tackle them. When its a tight spot u use math and rely on player reads etc to make the decisions

[Victor]

every decision i make is bc of math.

[BobboFitos]

[ QUOTE ]
every decision i make is bc of math.

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought Daryn's post to mean most decisions are so ingrained (ie the correct mathematical play) that stepping back and thinking about it (as in breaking down an EV calc) is fairly irrelevant since that play is "best". Although, stepping back and examining so-called routine plays often are where one finds leaks.

Also, just for repetition sake, I too make every decision based on math. (The purity of such decisions, such as when I tilt, can be called into question, though!)

[emerson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i thought it was the opposite basically.. you see the same situations over and over and get a feel for them, so most are no brainers. when it's close you rely on math.

[/ QUOTE ]

yea this is spot on, u see every spot and kno how to tackle them. When its a tight spot u use math and rely on player reads etc to make the decisions

[/ QUOTE ]

Player reads, etc, is what I meant about when it is close that math plays less of a role. When two plays are close there is almost no difference in your expected win based on math alone. So you drop the math and go to hand reading, tells, etc. This is like when you have maybe five outs and the pot offers just enough to maybe justify it. In that case it makes no mathematical difference whether you call or fold. It is just about a break even play. You rely on other factors. It is when it is not a close call, like when the pot odds are 20% over what they need to be, that math rules. The math tells you that you must call. When the pot odds are only 2/3 what they need to be it is not close. Math rules, you have to fold. You don't need to rely on reads.

[Andrew Prock]

You seem to be under the misguided assumtion that reading players, reading hands, and interpreting tells is not related to mathematics.

- Andrew

[emerson]

[ QUOTE ]
You seem to be under the misguided assumtion that reading players, reading hands, and interpreting tells is not related to mathematics.

- Andrew

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. It is all math. I think the original poster was speaking only in terms of pot odds and such. But yes, math goes into most decisions.

[inferno]

I hardly use math