Stealing against loose BB

[GoodOL]

Most here probably know how to defend against a BTN who raises 100% of the time....but what hands should we be stealing with against a BB that calls 100% of the time AND never folds the flop (i.e. he comes out betting, checks and calls, or CRs).

If you could direct me to a good thread or article that discusses this, I'd appreciate it. Thanks....

[aargh57]

Good question, like to hear the responses. It depends on the player of course, a passive show down monkey I want to steal with stuff that I can win UI in a showdown with, namely aces and pp's. Against an agressive guy I'm a little more lost as I kind of do the same thing and then don't know what to do when he keeps donking me on a 8K4 rainbow board when I have A2os.

[noob_sauce]

This is actually a pretty good question IMO.

My first thought is that maybe adjusting our typical raise any Axo first in strategy. Maybe A6o+ if our read is credible? I'd personally rather go to war vs. this type of villain with a couple of offsuit mid-range cards that hit more boards... maybe countering the tightening of the Axo, with a widening in this range?

Most of our value from raising any Axo, comes from the times we win uncontested, coupled with the times we get to showdown UI w/o much resistance, right? Kind of seems like this player pretty much negates both of those areas.

I typically struggle to adjust in these spots as well, and in general stick to the open raise any Ace on the button strategy. I also wonder whether we should adjust the Axo hands at all preflop, and just learn to play them better postflop. Just throwing some ideas out, would definitely like to hear from some more experienced posters on this.

[Gurravasa]

You can't steal against a player who calls 100%. If you raise from steal position against an opponent that calls 100% you are raising for value, not to steal.

[511 Peas]

When raising for value against this opponent, (utilizing correct logic fom above post) then K2s+,Q5s+,J7s+ have a bit of value (over 51.8 or more vs. 48.2, according to Stove) as do Axos, K5os+,Q7os+.

SHOULD WE STILL RAISE WITH THESE INTO HIM, CONSIDER LIMPING, OR FORGET IT??
(this is a serious question)

[aargh57]

The problem with limping is that we're going to have SB complete a lot here and I'd really like to get it HU vs BB. I think limping is actually a viable strategy if both players will call with just about anything however, in that case I think we limp with speculative hands otherwise I think we should be raising for value. In speculative here I think I mean small suited connecters and middle unsuited cards like T8,98 etc... Maybe I'm off my rocker here on those but I don't see why not as long as the blinds are pretty passive. We can limp with these and capitalize when they hit and pitch em when they don't. My problem still comes with the Axos hands. They've got SD value vs 1 loose passive opponent but against 2, not so much. So do we raise if we don't have much chance of getting HU or do we just muck em? Muckin seems weak so I raise. However, I'm not often in a game where I've got 2 uber LP's to my immediate left so this doesn't come up much for me.


BTW, can we still say uber?

[Oink]

Without a read on how he plays postflop the question is difficult to answer.

I would def play top 50%. But also more. There is dead money in the pot from the small blind and Hero has position. If in addition Hero has a significant postflop edge, he can play a lot of hands with +EV.

[aargh57]

[ QUOTE ]
Most of our value from raising any Axo, comes from the times we win uncontested, coupled with the times we get to showdown UI w/o much resistance, right? Kind of seems like this player pretty much negates both of those areas.



[/ QUOTE ]

No, I think this is why we raise em here. Perfect opportunity to get HU with a better hand vs a LP. If we hit, we can bet for value on all streets. If we miss he'll often give us very little resistance in that he's gonna just c/c unless he's got TP or better. We can bet,bet,check alot vs him and he'll muck his UI schlock against A high often enough coupled with the times that you make something out of your hand. He doesn't negate these areas, a LAG would, but this guys not going to contest unless he's got something good.

Of course, that's why I said in my first post that it depends on the type of loose defender here. If he is a LP then I love raising A high vs him. If he's a LAG, or Maniac, then, different story (and like I said, I'm not sure what's best vs them other than to call them down more because they overplay there hands often.)

[Heisenb3rg]

fold suited connectors/one gappers less than 89s assuming they are showdown bound. Hands like T8o hit the muck, T7s hit the muck.
I would raise these against most other profiles.

A2o+ are all great hands against this type and gain value.

You could probabily play a little looser on your Kxo hands too. I would raise K7o and possibly K6o where I would normally muck.

[GoodOL]

[ QUOTE ]
Without a read on how he plays postflop the question is difficult to answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes...I agree. I tried to give you a feel for BB's flop play (let's assume SB is folding)....he's going to contest the flop regardless. So, if we assume we are missing most flops, many of the weaker hands can become difficult to play. On the flip side, when we hit our hand, we're going to get money in on the flop.

As a specific, you raise w/ A6o and he calls (which he always does). Flop comes K72r and he bets or CRs (which he does, say 2/3 the time...the other 1/3 he calls). Now what? Tough spot in my opinion....and it will be a common situation against such a player. Since a hand like A6o has some showdown value...do we have to commit to getting to a showdown against such a player? Do we muck more preflop to avoid this situation...simply punishing BB with our best hands?