Neurotheology

[PairTheBoard]

Neurotheology

I'm a little suprised they are this far advanced in making observations of neurological phenomenon as they relate to spiritual and meditation experiences. Last I heard, about 8 years ago, the only machine in town that could do this kind of thing was at Scripps Research and cost a couple of million dollars.

I expect they will get better and better at doing this. They've even done a little in the way of artificially inducing simulated experiences of this type using magnetic methods. Nothing new in principle I suppose, considering the effects of LSD type drugs. But pointing to the potential for controlled inducement of such experiences.

The article gives both sides on the implications of this data, with its own conclusion at the end,

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So it goes, round and round. Either the brain naturally or through a malfunction manufactures religious delusions, or some otherworldly presence speaks to HomoSapiens through the language of neurological pulses. Hot in pursuit of this undecidable proposition, neurotheology will keep on churning out data—but when it comes to the biggest questions, it will never have much to say.


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I don't think the "or" need be as they state it; "or some otherworldly presence speaks to HomoSapiens through the language of neurological pulses". If there is a Human Spirit I would say that the origin of the experience is with that Spirit. The relationship between the Spirit and the Body is a Mystery. But it is such that when the Spirit is moved so is the Body. Our experience involves both while the observations of neurological pulses are only observations of the Body.

The thing is, I don't see how anybody could have expected them to find anything else. Of course we know there are going to be changes in the brain when people experience different things. How does identification of the specifics make any difference? Now, what Would be interesting is if they could induce a spiritual experience that would cause a Muslim to convert to Christianity! Or visa versa. I'm not sure what That would say, but they would sure have something on their hands then.

Personally, I'm waiting for the little chip implant that allows me infinite control over my pleasure center. Or at least something to take care of my chronic back pain without fouling my liver and making me constipated.

On a more serious note, if positive thinking can really aid in healing, they might be able to induce a simulated state of positive thinking that could do the same thing. Or even something better.

PairTheBoard

[Justin A]

Very interesting stuff.

I agree with you that I don't see any conclusions helping either side of the theistic debate.

[luckyme]

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Very interesting stuff.

I agree with you that I don't see any conclusions helping either side of the theistic debate.

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It does the same thing as understanding planetary motion pushed back Newtons claim that god must be doing it. Once we know that there are chemical, electrical, magnetic or damaged/misformed tissue that causes certain experiences then god-did-it explanations are reduced to, "ok, but god caused the tumor that causes the experience".
Such 3rd level claims can even seem a bit silly to theists as it gets in the way of 'god gave us free will' when a researcher randomly induces the effect.
If 'the spirit' shows up at the call of the researcher that another problem.

Essentially, it's much better for mysterians of any kind if spiritual experiences can't be called up by skeptics in white smocks.

luckyme

[arahant]

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Of course we know there are going to be changes in the brain when people experience different things. How does identification of the specifics make any difference?...

...On a more serious note, if positive thinking can really aid in healing, they might be able to induce a simulated state of positive thinking that could do the same thing. Or even something better.


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That's exactly the point behind a lot of the research. The people doing it are under no illusions about 'finding god', they are looking for the concrete applications. I have a friend who actually do this sort of stuff, mostly studying the brains of meditators.

There have already been some interesting results...one of which being that certain types of meditation lead to increased happiness (at least, increased activation of brain areas usually associated with happiness [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] ). It would certainly be nice if they could eventually use this sort of research to refine and validate various types of meditation.