LC: We're playing SNGs-are we idiots?

KPL · #1 06-23-2007, 07:04 PM

Hi guys, just rambling down some thoughts. The SNG players have lost "status" (if they ever had any...) the last 6 months to 1,5 years among the poker society. I really don't care about the guys complaining about how SNGs really isn't about poker at all,"blah, blah, AI preflop, lol donkaments" etc. Most of the guys trashing the game because of its nature isn't the big winners anyway - or maybe they are, I just can't see why winning players need to trash supposedly inferior players.

But anyhow: especially "post Frist", the "good players" have been fleeing from the SNGs. If you look at the front page of STT, most of the posts are from noobs or low stakes players.
Even the mods of this forum don't care so much about SNGs, but stick around because they once enjoyed the games and feel more connected to this forum as this is were they started.

I'm still playing SNGs, because I still think they are kind of fun (!) and still find them kind of soft, but I'm wondering if I'm just to stupid/lazy to move on and pick up another game.

My question is if they are worth playing still. Here are some cons/pros:

Cons:
- There isn't that many good players left who still find the beneficial. Among players who have moved on: Citanul, good2cu, Curtains, FieryJustice, Raptor, etc. (actually, most of the "big" posters when I started lurking in this forum winter '05)

- The high stakes players who still are playing SNGs are either among the greatest players (like bigjoe, Z32fanatic, Gramps etc.), or has it as a second game (like dbbeast, pudge)

(NB: just examples of names in the paragraphs above, but I'm sure you're getting the main point)

-the games are solved/may be more easily learned, so more people are picking up the basic ICM strategy

- the ROI of even good players are dropping post Frist, and the variance may be kind of bad

- there are more multi tablers, even at the lower buy ins

- the $/hr is lower than at cash games (assuming you're a winning player)

-it's kind of stressful, as you're stuck to the game as long as you're in it

Okay, was thinking on putting in some pro SNGs statements as well, but I notice that the tl;dr factor is high enough already. I'll come back with some more thoughts if this post get some love

checkmate36 · #2 06-23-2007, 07:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
My question is if they are worth playing still

[/ QUOTE ]

It depends on what your looking for. If your looking for fun and you said you thought they were fun, then play them.

ALReturnsLOL · #3 06-23-2007, 07:18 PM

" We're playing SNGs-are we idiots?"

Short answer is yes, unless your an SNG icon.

KPL · #4 06-23-2007, 07:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
" We're playing SNGs-are we idiots?"

Short answer is yes, unless your an SNG icon.

[/ QUOTE ]

You were a semi decent small stakes SNG player, if I'm correct?
Moved to cash or MTT? More fun/ better $/hr? Care to elaborate?

donkeykong2 · #5 06-23-2007, 07:27 PM

i have recently returned to sngs for two short sessions with about 20 sngs at limits from 10-30 $ and i have to say the games were not juicy imo. there were occasional donks but the play was ultra nitty even at the 20$ limit and i just didnt see a lot of big mistakes which would make the games worth playing, i m pretty sure i d be a winner for like 10-20% roi but i dont think it s worth it, the swings suck and the gameplay is pretty stupid if you just decide between all-in or fold at 10 tables simultaneously. cash games are more easy money imo. it s just too easy to learn these games and multitable them, so the profits have gone down rapidly.

ALReturnsLOL · #6 06-23-2007, 07:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
" We're playing SNGs-are we idiots?"

Short answer is yes, unless your an SNG icon.

[/ QUOTE ]

You were a semi decent small stakes SNG player, if I'm correct?
Moved to cash or MTT? More fun/ better $/hr? Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

I moved from STTs to low stakes cash and now I have pulled in 4k+ a month for the last 4 months. My highest month in sngs was 1500.

I love cash and I find it so much more rewarding than sngs

Eagles · #7 06-23-2007, 07:30 PM

No offense to people like ALreturns but I can't stand when SSNL people look down on sngs/mtts because they play cash games as if 100nl is some intensely complex form of poker that sng players cant understand.

KPL · #8 06-23-2007, 07:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
" We're playing SNGs-are we idiots?"

Short answer is yes, unless your an SNG icon.

[/ QUOTE ]

You were a semi decent small stakes SNG player, if I'm correct?
Moved to cash or MTT? More fun/ better $/hr? Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

I moved from STTs to low stakes cash and now I have pulled in 4k+ a month for the last 4 months. My highest month in sngs was 1500.

I love cash and I find it so much more rewarding than sngs

[/ QUOTE ]

That's impressive. How do you find the stress level/swings?

cougar62 · #9 06-23-2007, 07:33 PM

I switched from limit to SNG's at the beginning of the year because I got bored with limit (and I didn't have the stones to move to no-limit cash games.) So I have no frame of reference for how things were a year or so ago, but I get the feeling from the forum in general that the games have gotten quite a bit tougher. I gotta believe though, that online poker in general is just getting tougher, because new players and busto fish may be more reluctant to load/reload because if they do get lucky and win they think they wont be able to cash out, at least not quickly and easily like before.
So I guess my point is I don't see a reason why the grass would be greener in some other type of game, except for each players individual skills in that game vs. the competition.

ALReturnsLOL · #10 06-23-2007, 07:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
" We're playing SNGs-are we idiots?"

Short answer is yes, unless your an SNG icon.

[/ QUOTE ]

You were a semi decent small stakes SNG player, if I'm correct?
Moved to cash or MTT? More fun/ better $/hr? Care to elaborate?

[/ QUOTE ]

I moved from STTs to low stakes cash and now I have pulled in 4k+ a month for the last 4 months. My highest month in sngs was 1500.

I love cash and I find it so much more rewarding than sngs

[/ QUOTE ]

That's impressive. How do you find the stress level/swings?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am gonna elaborate on what eagles said a bit, in order not too sound too arrogant, I want to mention that I have an extreme amount of respect for people who can beat the 16's+ for a high ROI. That being said I see no reasons not to switch to cash, nor do I think that a 16 or 27 grinder could beat nl200 without alot of hard work.

As far as variance I had a 40 buy in downswing in sngs, my biggest cash game downswing has been 12